Aware Parenting in the Childcare setting with Steph Fleeton

In this episode Shelley Clarke chats with Founder/Director of Spirited Hearts, Steph Fleeton. Steph is a Holistic Childhood Mentor, Certified Aware Parenting Instructor, Parenting Support Counsellor, Mama Circle Facilitator and Homeschooling parent who follows a natural learning approach. Listen as Steph takes us through her journey of majoring in psychology to building a haven for children to learn, grow and play whilst feeling fully supported, safe and protected.

In this episode you'll learn about:
- why Steph believes children need to be protected from labels instead of being boxed into categories
- how to tap into our bodies natural healing mechanisms to help us heal from stress and trauma
- why creating an environment for children to put their emotional needs first is vital
- what it looks like to support mlutliple children in their emotional understanding and processing
- why a child's early education or care away from the home can be an extension of their village

If you are looking for ways to bring Aware Parenting into the childcare setting or into the classroom then this is the podcast episode for you!

21 days of play course

Continue the conversation with Shelley here:
https://www.facebook.com/shelleyclarkemindbodyparenting
https://www.instagram.com/_shelleyclarke_/

Find Steph Fleeton here:
https://spiritedhearts.net/
https://www.instagram.com/spirited_hearts/

This podcast is produced by Nikki O'Brien from Quintessential Being

Transcript

 Shelley Clarke  00:00

I wish to acknowledge the traditional custodians of the lands I live on. I pay my respects to the Kaurna people, elders past and present, and honour their ongoing traditions. Welcome to the Mind Body Parenting podcast. I'm your host, Shelley Clarke. Here I talk about all things mind and body and how this relates to ourselves and our parenting. I envision a world where children are seen and heard, and parents feel supported and less alone. Join me here in the power of story, expert knowledge and lived experiences. Let's dive in. 

Hello, and welcome back to the Mind Body Parenting podcast. I'm your host, Shelley Clarke and today I have the pleasure of chatting with Steph Fleeton from Spirited hearts natural learning. Steph is a holistic Childhood Mentor, a counsellor and Aware parenting instructor. She does one to one mentoring for educators and she has her natural learning Haven, which I absolutely love. The term Haven I think that's amazing. So welcome, Steph, thank you for coming on.

Steph Fleeton  01:12

Well, thank you so much for having me, Shelley. I'm really excited about what we're going to talk about today. Yay. And

01:17

we'll talk more about the word Haven. But I just don't know, when I hear that I always just think of like this beautiful, like, safe container and you know, out in nature. And I just think that's a beautiful image that that name kind of represents. I think that's amazing.

01:37

Thank you. It's a word that I actually took time, not trying to find like I was waiting for Word to come to me that would suit it. Because I was family daycare. There's parts of the national regulations I don't agree with especially in regards to child development, emotional well being. And there's a severe lack of a focus on that it's very superficial. And so when I decided to leave family, daycare and become an independent, home based place, I'm just like, well, what would I refer to that as? Yeah, so my philosophy has always involve natural learning. So I was like, well, that. I mean, my business is spirited, heart's natural learning, but also like, I need a word at the end of that, that describes it. And I'm, I've was thinking, Now what am I trying to achieve in this space? And what do I want children and families to feel like in this space, and unless like, I want it to be a home away from home, I want it to be nurturing and safe and supportive. And somewhere that everyone who comes he just feels protected? Like it's in its own little bubble. And I'll just say, Haven, it'll be Haven.

02:55

Amazing. I honestly, I love it. So would you like to tell those listening a little bit more about what you do? How you came to be doing? What it is you do now?

03:08

I will try and keep it brief? Yeah, that's okay. We've got time. Okay, awesome. Okay, so I guess it all started. When I went for my university degree, I knew that I wanted to focus on people because I've always been a natural observer, and listener. And so humans just fascinate me. They're so unique and varied. And so I wanted to understand them more and what you know, goes on for them. So I decided to do a major in psychology. And my favourite part of that degree was actually child development. So I guess that was the very beginning of wanting to delve into working with children. So about EU at the end of my second year, I decided I didn't want to become a registered psychologist, which was my plan at the beginning, because I didn't like the big focus they had on labels. I do understand that. Labels are important in helping support children in society, and they can get funding and it helps others understand what's going on for that child, but I didn't want to sit in a room and just do tick boxes and go where does this person fit in the manual? Yeah, I wanted a more holistic approach. So I went and did some holistic counselling qualifications. I did half of a Master's of counselling, before deciding that I wanted to focus on early childhood education. So in 2013, my first son was born. And when I was pregnant, my husband and I did a calmbirth workshop. And we were given a little booklet, which I didn't read until about a month later, but at the back of the booklet that was I'm in a way of parenting essay by Marian. Yeah. And so many people

05:04

might have read that same essay actually in our combat stuff.

05:08

Yeah, yeah, it's funny. Um, I think a lot of people get to it through Mary and in Australia anyway. And so I resonated with it from the first paragraph because I always had this vision in my mind of how I wanted to parent and how I wanted it to look. And then I read Marion's essay, and I thought to myself, This is it like, there's actually something that exists. And it was even better than what I envisioned because it had that aspect of that our bodies have natural healing mechanisms, with crying and raging and laughter that help us heal from stress and trauma. And thinking back to my psychology degree, I was like, Well, that makes sense, you know, based on neurophysiology and all that sort of stuff. And so I read it, the essay to my husband, and it resonated with him. And I went on Marion's website at the time, which I think she called parenting with presents. Yep. Yeah. Yeah, it was it was a while ago, like, yeah, to go, yeah. And then I ordered all of the leaf, his books, and they arrived when my son was about two weeks old. So I just remember holding him as a baby while he was sleeping and trying to read as much of the aware baby as possible. So I could do the things from the very beginning. And so as he grew up, I never wanted to send him to a childcare centre. I didn't go to one if like, I'm going to be completely honest, I have never stepped in a Childcare Centre in my entire life. My grandparents were my before school care after school care. They looked after me from when I was three months old, when my inheritance were working. And I just thought to myself, all those children out there that don't have this opportunity, because when you go to mums group, you sit there while I sat there, because I'm an observer. So I do. People think that I'm like, really shy and quiet and probably really socially awkward. Which is probably true. But I listened to all these stories about all the horrible things that the children had been experiencing, and centres and even family daycares. And so I was just like, well, this is unacceptable. So my husband and I talked about it. And just before our eldest son turned two, we opened our first family daycare in Canberra. And it was built on the foundation of where parenting theory and where parenting principles. We didn't want to scare anyone away. So we didn't actually say all those terms, because it can be a bit to grasp. I mean, as five books written on the subject. Yeah. You know, we just said that we have a really strong focus on emotional support, and that we hold space for children when they have big feelings, and just things that parents could relate to. And so very quickly, when we've opened, we were fully booked. Yeah. And we had a waitlist.

08:04

And so we did that. And then things went a bit pear shaped. Because in 2016, I fell pregnant with our second son and I had our hyperemesis or haich D. And so I was I was, luckily my husband was working with me, and we're both registered educators that he actually, you know, was able to do most of the work because I was like, bedridden for months. I was in hospital for four days during my second trimester, because I lost about 10 kilos in two weeks. Yeah. So it was really horrible. And in that time, the place where we were renting the landlord was lovely. And he allowed us to do family daycare there, he decided to sell the house. So just before my second son was born, we moved into my parents house, and we had to close our family daycare. And so my husband had to do like a bit of a career change, because I was going to go on maternity leave. Anyway. And after having a nine months of being nauseous it Yeah, I was just like, I need more than, you know, the few weeks I was gonna take off. Yeah. So he joined the army, which is something he always wanted to do since he was 18. So I'm never one to hold someone back from what they want to do. So I gave him my full blessing. And so when our second son was four months, he was away for seven months. Wow. So I'll solo parenting for seven months. And then we got posted to Queensland, which is where we're still located now. And we're not going to move he's discharging from the army at the end of the year. He did six years. And so we reopened a family daycare here as well. We both even though he was in the army, he also became a registered educator and he was like my relief educator. And so it was a bit of a struggle because The scheme that we were registered with here was a lot more mainstream than the one we were blessed to have within Canberra were they understood, they're just like, you know, the policies are like 10 years behind the research. Like you do what you need to do, because we trust you like, you know what you're doing. You have a psychology degree, we completely resonate with a way of parenting, where up here, it was like very much by the book. Yeah. And so I was getting very frustrated with having to push back and justify everything I was doing. And so that's when I was made the decision to go independent with the help of this key miles registered within Canberra, actually, she was just like, you know, you can go independent because I sent her a message and like, I wish you were located in, you know, Toowoomba. And I'm like, Oh, can I and so she helped me. So I wrote my own policy and procedures manual, which is in alignment with a secular, so a secular is the ones who come up with the natural national regulations in all, early childhood settings have to follow. So it's got all the same health and safety things, but then I've added extra things like natural learning and emotional support. And we have several homeschooling kids here. And this forms, you know, an extension of their community, and somewhere where they can go for a sense of belonging. Yeah. And though, that's pretty much herding cats, and how it evolved in my journey. And

11:28

well, and so how many kids do you have now, like, How many kids do you have, not your kids, I mean, in the centre or Haven.

11:38

So I have a ratio of one to six. Or I have my mum works with me. So she is also a counsellor. And she's she's been a lifeline volunteer telephone counsellor, and she has worked with people with mental illnesses, and helping them through mindfulness and group work and all that sort of stuff. So when she's working here with me, we could extend the ratio of two to nine. But normally, those extra three spots I save, if one of my current kids want an extra day, or need to swap or something, it's not something that's permanent, because I've really taken into consideration the size of the environment, I mean, we're on three quarters of an acre. So it's not tiny, but I want children to have the space that they need to grow and to learn, and some kids do need more space. And I also want them to have that really strong sense of emotional support. So I could have easily said, you know, I want one to eight as the ratio, but I'm one to 10. But I'm just like, this isn't about money. For me, this is about creating an environment, and putting the children's emotional needs first, because the first five years of their life is the most crucial in their development. And so you don't want a child to come here and feel like, you know, they're just a number or that their needs don't matter, or that there's no one there that has the capacity to listen to what they're going through in that moment. So I keep my ratio small for a reason.

13:14

Yeah. Which is amazing. And I also want to just to add there, for anyone that's listening, that if you've, you know, like we childcare is something that we often all have to utilise, to go to work and pay the bills and other things. So I just want to say that if you have are listening and have send your kid to childcare to and have any feelings coming up around that, I just want to send you lots of love. Because I really, I love staffs approach to, to bringing a web parenting of principles into the child care setting, which is why I really wanted her to you to come on and share it and, and and give us a vision of what that looks like. And with hope that you know more and more childcare centres bring these principles in and start to use these approaches and understand children in this way. But I also wanted to say a big, you know, sending lots of love, if any feelings are coming up around like oh, I've had to send my kid to a childcare centre. That's okay, we can listen and we can play and we can reconnect and do all those things. And there are more and more options out there that you know, will have these beautiful principles too. So I wanted to just kind of highlight that. What does it look like with so there's one to six in the childcare centre. When you say support children in their emotional understanding and emotional support. How does that actually look when you've got that many kids and you know, how do you support children in that

14:47

way? Yeah, that's a good question. And one I'm sure that many people are asking because those familiar with it were parenting know that. You know, when you are listening to a child who is upset disappointed, frustrated, you need to give them your full undivided attention. So how do you do that with the children. So, for me, I've found it quite easy. I, I don't like using that word because I don't want people to feel less of their own abilities. But listening is where I feel most comfortable. And so I feel very uncomfortable with, you know, social situations, I'm socially awkward. I mentioned that with a where parenting play was a big challenge for me, because it's about putting my energy outwards. So I have my stuff to work on. And I have flaws, just like everyone else. But listening is where I naturally thrive. So when a child is upset, I do sit down with them the same way I would sit down with my own kids. And even though I have these other children here, because they haven't all started at the same time, all their journeys start the same way, there's some separation anxiety, and they have to, I have to work to build that and create that trust, you know, to they know that I'm a safe person for them. And the safest support person they can find in that situation when our parents, or primary caregivers aren't with them. And so I work really hard throughout the entire time a child is here, but especially at the beginning, when, you know, they're feeling unsure and overwhelmed, and they don't know what's going to happen. And so they go through that process with me where they know from the beginning that no matter what they're feeling, or even how they're behaving that I will accept them 100% and unconditionally in all those moments. And so then when a new child comes along, and they go through the same thing, those children just look at them and like, oh, yeah, I can see that you're feeling what I felt back then. And they'll just continue playing because I've had parents come in, they're just like, I'm really sorry that you know, my child still, you know, crying right now. And I don't want to leave them with you. But I really have to go. And I'm just like, because they don't want to disturb the other kids. And I'm just like, have a look around the room. None of them are disturbed, like they're either playing or sometimes some of the kids come over, and we'll just sit with me. And they'll just be like, I'm here to because they know, I say they say I'm here, I'm listening all about, you know, Rob, the upset child's back, just and then so you form this community. And so the children grow up with this sense of everything I'm feeling and everything everyone else is feeling is okay. And it's normal, and it's natural, and someone will always be there to hold that space for me. And so that is how I do it with six children is because they know they've learnt that it's okay to express their feelings and be who they are. And so when other children have those same feelings, they don't feel distressed or overwhelmed by it, they're, you know, they see you can see the empathy in their eyes. And you can see the actions when they you know, come over and sit with us. Or you can see that they're just like, that person, that little boy safe with stuff. So I'm just gonna keep playing. Yeah.

18:13

Yeah. Which is so amazing. And we actually see this when we have multiple children anyway, with a way of parenting often parents, new parents to listening to feelings will say, but how do I listen, when I've got two children, and unlike over time, our children know that they're going to be heard. And so I find sometimes my kids, if one's crying, the other one they're playing, or they just entertain themselves, they just know that mums needed over there for a little while. And, you know, they have their turn a different day. So kids are really intuitive like that. They do know. And I think that's just a beautiful. I just, wouldn't it be so amazing if that was wherever we were sending our kids to whether it was a childcare, early learning, or kindy or Kinder or school, that, that that was what they were received with with that same understanding and, and, you know, someone listening to their feelings.

19:16

Hmm, yeah. And I've had parents, you know, who have been familiar with a parent where parenting saying, they don't just want to send their child to somewhere where, when they're upset when that they leave that educators just kind of go and distract them. I'll come here and play with this, or do you want to do this? They're just going to be like, I see how upset you are. You're really gonna miss mommy today. I'm here. I'm listening. And you're safe here.

19:43

Amazing. I've like my kids went to childcare for a brief period, maybe a year, maybe a year and a half. And I certainly came up against that. Where my for drop off, my kids would cling to my leg and And then I would stay for a little while and I was doing a web parenting by this stage. So I would stay for a little while I would do a bit of play. But it did get to a point where I did have to leave. And I often got was told that the quicker you leave, the better it's gonna be, or they would imply that I was the problem. And that, you know, because I'm staying around, and, you know, listening to my kid and just connecting with her and making sure she's safe, that she's, you know, it's making it worse. What's your experience with that? Are I able to kind of like, you know, what's the AWARE parenting approach there? And what's your experience with that?

20:46

Yeah, so I, I work in partnerships with families with the parents. And so it's not just about a child coming here. It's about a parent and what their big feelings are. And so you would not believe the amount of times that moms have come here to either have a visit or to just drop their children off, and they have just burst into tears. And they're apologising. And I'm just like, Don't apologise, I actually have that effect on people. Just let it all out. It's okay, I'm here to listen. And so yeah, it can be, it can be big for parents to have to do that. And it's, it's hard because you as a parent, I would say you have to discern whether your child clinging to you is a normal feeling of separation anxiety, or whether something has happened in that environment that has caused some type of stress or trauma. And so you really need to have that really deep connection with your child. So they feel open to tell you because I know my son went to kindy, which in Queensland is actually preschool. And he went the first tuin to terms with being fine, he loved it. And then in turn, three, the teacher changed. And he started getting more anxious and not wanting to get out of the car. But then when he was there, he was okay. And then it got to the point where one morning, he was just clean to my leg. And he wouldn't let go. And the teacher was just like, Oh, that's okay, just hold him. And you can just go out the door. And I'm like, I'm not okay with that. I'm just gonna take him home. And so as I was driving home, I asked him, you know, what was going on, and it had something happened and what he was feeling about it and he said, he just didn't ever want to go back. And he was really distraught about it. So I trust my intuition. I have a very strong that sense. So I just rang them. And I'm like, I'm enrolling him. And they're just like, what, we haven't even given us tips to fix it on my Yeah, but I know my son. And I know what my intuition is saying right now. And so when my son knew that he wasn't going to go back, he actually said that the teachers yelled at all the kids. And that's not the picture they paint when you drop them off and pick them up. And so yeah, I would say for parents, that it's really important to differentiate a normal sense of separation anxiety, which, you know, children will experience anytime, even with, like grandparents sometimes, AND, OR, and whether something has happened. So that would be step one. Step two, is I always recommend that parents look at a few places, or if they just know intuitively, like this is the place well, you know, you can do that. But I have a process that's very different to a lot of processes. Because, you know, family, daycares, and childcare centres just want kids in enrolled, yeah, where that's not the way I operate. So I have a process where families come here after hours, so I give them my full undivided attention, that child can feel free to explore all the environment without feeling pressure to socially interact with other children. And then from there, I let parents come for like, two, two weeks on the day, they want my child to come for like a playdate where they stay with their child for a couple of hours. So that child knows that their parent is there and is a safe place. And then they can get to know the kids that are there on their days. And then after that I allow normally I have a six hour minimum. But for the first couple of weeks, I say to parents, I'm only going to charge you what your child is here. So if they're here just for half a day, that's what I'm going to charge you because I don't want parents to pay to feel like they're fed that because there's that sense of coercion like yeah, okay, my minimum six hours, that's what you have to pay for. And then they might feel like, Oh, I've got to, you know, have you here for the full six hours and I know that you're not going to take that very well. So I'm just like, if it's two hours, whatever, if it's four hours, I'll just go with it. And so that's what I do. So it's like a very gradual like as if you're at the beach and you're just like gradually walking a little bit deeper and then By the time a child is here for the first full day, you know, they know the environment really well, they know the kids, I've built a very strong foundation and strong relationship and connection with them so that when their parents do drop them off, and that time they do leave, then there's less feelings of separation anxiety, like, they might still feel upset. And so I hold that space. But as time goes on, and they release those accumulated feelings, they just get dropped off, and they're really happy, they get picked up, and they're really happy. And also, because I do hold the space during the day, you know, they're not happy all the time. Because that's, like, you know, when parents pick their children up, and are like, how was their day? I'm just like, well, you know, they're upset at this point. And this point, they felt frustrated here, were like, you wouldn't get that with the centre. They'd be like, No, yeah, they had a really good day, they were happy all day, because the focus is on being happy. And I'm like, the focus is on being healthy. Yeah, having a healthy, emotional, healthy, emotional well being. And all the parents know that coming in here. They know that, you know, I hold the space, and they know about, I will honestly tell them, you know, if there was anything that concern their child through the day, or they felt frustrated about because frustration is a normal part of learning, or anything that upset them, or, you know, and I always work with the kids to negotiate with each other age, just leave them to try and sort things out on themselves. But, you know, I have, and parents are fine with that. So children actually have quite good negotiation skills when you leave them to it. Yeah, been, the only times I've had to intervene is when it's gotten a bit physical, in which case, you know, I go in and sit with that child and say, I see you're really frustrated. And at the moment, and then you know, you decide on whether you go in with play, or whether you go in with holding space and offering empathy. And that also comes down to knowing that child and what they need in that moment to,

26:57

yep. Amazing. And I just think, just that picture of the learning or, you know, getting used to their environment, and building that relationship with you. And the parents knowing that you really wisdom, really, with the kids for the whole day, it would make if my child was then crying at drop off, I would know that you have got them. And I think that for many times, I've dropped my kids off to different things, and you're leaving and you're like, oh, he doesn't know that they're not really going to be held or heard in that space. And that's really hard for parents. But I think knowing that, when they're dropping them off to your haven that they're actually going to be heard, it's like this beautiful continuity of knowing that that child is going to be seen and heard in any of the environments that they're in. I just think that is just such a vision for how we want all childcare settings of any thought to be, I think that's amazing.

28:09

Yeah, and that's what I really aim for too, is to be an extension of that child's village to see this as a home away from the home the same way they would their grandparents house are another family member's house, and childcare centres. While they claim that they're like part of a child's community, they're actually quite detached and disconnected from what's really going on with that child. Like, when a child enrols here, it's not just the child, it's the family. So I spent a lot of time listening to families. And so the same type of support I would give in my one on one parenting support sessions, these families get just as part of their fees when their children come here. And there's been a few times where I've had consultations with parents that have come here. And so it's like very unique situation because I actually know their child. And so I can work with that parent on a particular issue. So, you know, in childcare centres, they do do that, like you might say are you know, Tom is having an issue with the toilet can you help him work through it, but they don't do it in a way that's sensitive to that child's needs and his feelings in that moment. And so, you know, I use the AWARE parenting tools of holding space listening, play, you know, role playing, nonsense play. And it here, I can still do special play. That might seem weird to people who know what special time is, is some kids actually say to me, Steph, I just really wish it was you and me right now or stuff. I just really want some alone time. Just you and me. And so I look around the room and I'm like, everyone's pretty much engaged. Like what would you like to do? And like it might be just like reading a book or they're just like, Oh, can you just sit with me while I play with this or I build this and so I give that Heil, that full presence and awareness that I would in special time with my own children, which one I furthers that connection. And so yeah, I don't know how it started. But one child just said to me, I really wish that you and I were here alone right now, my, I hear that wish, how can we make that happen? And so we did. And so there's like just these little small moments. And I explained to them that our timer for special time is when another child comes over. Yeah, has that adage, you know, that child obviously has a need. So I'm just like, Okay, I will sit with you. And you can tell me what I have to do, or you know, what you would like me to do. And once another child comes over, that's a little special time over, but maybe we can fit another one in a bit later. And yeah, so they every single aware parenting tool, and principle can be incorporated into an early childhood environment. And for the people that might think oh, well, that's fine if you work from home, because you've got a small ratio. And even though I have never set foot in a centre, I would say you could do it in a centre very easily, especially if you employed educators, specifically, for the purpose of providing emotional support. So you can have the educators who, you know, carry on with what they're currently doing. But if you have just one educator that, you know, checks in with all the children that and their feelings and sees if any of them need to be heard in that moment, if you see a child struggling, you can go in with play. And if each section of a centre, you know, because there's baby room, toddler rooms, had just one educator that, you know, was just there, not for the purpose that all the other educators are there for, but specifically to offer that emotional support based on our parenting principles. It's very doable.

31:54

If that was gonna be my next question of like, how, if there's an educator, because I know, you know, people listening might be teachers, or childcare workers, or even if it's a parent, but you, you know, a wanting to bring some of these principles into multiple kids, say, at a birthday party, and all of those sort of things. What would be some of the things that, say, an a teacher, or a childhood educator? How do they start to use this approach or do this, you know, with their kids, what would be a couple of things that you would recommend, obviously, doing some aware parenting, training or understanding the philosophy is always good.

32:40

So I would say that, to begin with, it's a good idea to know why it's important for children to cry and rage. And that's because when we cry for emotional reasons, our tears release stress hormones from from our body. And the same with raging when we sweat and scream and pound, our fists on the ground or stamp our feet. That's all releasing stress hormones, and big feelings from our body. And when those are gone, we have the freedom to think clearer and learn better, because you can't learn if your whole body is just clouded by all these accumulated feelings and stresses and traumas. And so having that understanding of why crying and holding space is important is crucial to being able to actually do it in the first place. Because you need a why like, yeah, and teachers and educators need to know that why is that it's neurophysiology. It's scientifically proven. And so I guess the first step would be to do what you feel comfortable with, as an educator and a teacher, are you comfortable to sit with a child, why they're crying, and just say, I'm here, I'm listening. And that's literally all you need to say. You don't need to fix that child's problem, unless they're, you know, hurt, hungry need to go to the toilet, or any other physical reason. But if you know that, the reason they're crying is because they're having big emotions, like maybe they're frustrated, because a puzzle won't go together properly, instead of going in there and putting it together for them. They're not gonna learn how to do that. And kids ask me that all the time. They're like, Steph, I don't know how to draw a flower, draw it for me. And I'm like, well, I could draw a flower, but it would be Steph’s flower. Not, Grace’s flower. And so I'm like, I could show you help I draw a flower on my own piece of paper. But I'm just like, Wouldn't it be amazing if you drew your own flower, and then it could be braces, special flower. And so so we're often so quick to jump in and try and fix things just to end a child's frustration and raging and crying. And so I would say, I wonder what it would look like if you just sat next to that child and said, I see you're frustrated that puzzle pieces are going there and you're trying really hard to get it I'm here and I'm listening. You don't have to tell them that it's the wrong spot, or they've got it upside down or back to front. Because they'll figure that out on their own. And most of the time, they already know that. Yeah, they just need to release that frustration first. Yeah. And so I would say, that's a good first step, and just taking baby steps, like, don't walk into your room and think that you have to, you know, sit with every single child that day through every single, you know, meltdown that's happening, but just, you know, choose little tiny moments, you know, take baby steps, and get more comfortable with what it feels like to just sit next to a child. And I also like telling adults, and asking them, do you remember a time where you felt really emotional, and you've had that one person that just sat next to you. And I'm just like, that's what a child needs, they need you to just sit next to them because they have that same sense of relief, and connection when someone listens to what they're going through. And so that would be a first step. And then you can incorporate play, like I said, I resonate more with the holding space and other play was more of a challenge for me. But if you're one of those people that are just so vibrant, and alive, and like being silly, then you can go in with, you know, playful games, to any of the kids like the other day, I had a child who had some big feelings. And he said the car he had was too small. And I was just like, Oh, I see the cars really small. And they started banging it on the table. And so I started making noises. If I was the class was like, No, you hit me on the table. And then he started giggling. And so I just kept pretending to be the cause voice. And so he found that funny. And that only lasted two minutes. Yeah. And I've also told parents, because everyone's all into bluey. And blue is such an amazing show for all these playful games. Absolutely. And I'm just like, did you know that a blue episode goes for seven minutes? Like, it doesn't take that long to do play with the child? Yeah. No. Yeah. Like if you can sit through a blue episode, and see, like, mom trying to get a sticky Gecko off the ceiling for seven minutes. Yeah. And not losing her mind. You can turn anything into a playful situation.

37:26

Yep. Yeah, you really can. And that's where I was, you know, like, I often have wondered, I'm not in a classroom setting. So I am the one to one with clients in the clinic or with my own kids. And I have three kids. And so, you know, I do do play with multiple kids. And I've had my nieces and nephews. And there's probably been six or seven kids that I've played with at once. But I certainly haven't done it in like a classroom or with a bigger amount of people. And so I would imagine that once you've got one kid playing, though, you could quite easily end up playing with many, and then there's lots of laughter, and then all of a sudden, the tension or, you know, the feelings that were bubbling up, probably shift. So play is a brilliant way of of connecting, reconnecting and helping us shift that tension.

38:21

Yeah, and you can do it like, we play, like stuck in the mud, and they'll stick me in the mud. Yeah, and then everyone will start joining in. And so like, I don't get very far when like, you have six voices saying stop, go stop Bo and tapping you on the shoulder to unsticking the mind. There are times though, where some kids are going through quite a lot in the moment. And so when you initiate play, it's very therapeutic for them. But at the same time, they don't want anyone else joining in and that can create more emotion. So yep, you do have to set a loving limit for the other kids. There's any specific example I can give this one child, she really wanted to play with this other child, but he just he wanted to play with someone else. So she was developing big feelings about that, you know, feeling abandoned and betrayed. And then she really wanted the hats they were wearing because they were wearing matching hats. And so that made her feel even more excluded. And so I was just sitting on the ground with her. And then one of the boys came and put the hat on my head. And he told me to stand up. So I stood up. And then he ran off. And then this child was just like, I want the hat. And I'm like, what happened? And she's like, on your head. I'm like, There's no hat on my head. I can't see your hat. And I was like, they're trying to look up at this, that I couldn't see because no one can see the top of their head. And she started giggling and she's like the hat on your head. And I'm like, I can't see like, even if I pull my eyebrows up and look up. And then she's just like, bend over. So I bend over forward to the hat toppled off and then I was like, oh, Oh my god, where did that come from? And so she got me to repeat that game again and again. And then the other child came back and wanted to play too. And she started yelling, no, it's just between me and Steph right now. So I just said, I hear you really want to play? How about we play this game? As soon as I'm finished here? Because we're just playing this one on one at the moment. And he was happy with that, because he can be like, oh, yeah, because I do take turns here, not forced sharing. So all the kids know that, even though they really want something, I'm not going to take it off the child who's currently using it. And the same thing goes with play safe batch child just wants one on one play in that moment to help them work through what they're going through.

40:44

Oh, wow, I just, this is so incredible to hear it working in a childcare setting because and that the emotional well being of the children is really at the centre, because I just think about that little child that may have felt Miss, you know, like, left out of that dynamic. And if they had spent their whole day then holding those feelings in one, it affects their learning for the rest of the day and two, like that's a lot then for them to process with their parents, do you find that there seems to be a bit more seamless between settings like the parents say they have as big meltdowns or crying, not meltdowns, but crying and releases at the end of the day.

41:34

So when a child first starts, they might have a big cry or meltdown, when their parent picks me up. They don't want to leave. Yeah. And so that's a transition like they're transitioning back to being home. And especially if they haven't been given that opportunity at home, because parents aren't aware that, you know, holding space for children is therapeutic for them to release stress and trauma. Children come here to release that stress and trauma. And so they know, okay, Steph accepts it. And now I'm about to go somewhere where, you know, that might not be accepted. And also the kids who do have that accumulation, because they obviously won't spend six hours crying. So they're just releasing little bits at a time that you know, when they do go get picked up because of that transition. That is there's big feelings involved in that. So then they will have a meltdown and you know, refuse to hop in the car refuse to get strapped in. And that's nothing bad about the parent. That's just, you know, that feeling of, I feel powerless in this moment. I didn't want to leave right now. And I don't want to hop in the car right now. And I have all these other accumulated feelings that have nothing whatsoever to do with what's currently happening. So yeah, the more a child's feelings are heard, here, and at home than yes, the more seamless that transition is, is because there's always space being held whether here or at their own home, as opposed to a child who has feelings are only held here.

43:09

Yeah. Do you have? Yeah, do you have a like the most of your parents end up? Like doing away parenting? Or do sort of educate them around this if they haven't seen this approach? Or know about it?

43:26

Yeah, so some of them already come in knowing about aware parenting or, you know, a similar parenting approach eye candy hand. And then others, they, they do ask because it's in my I have an information booklet that I email out to all parents. So they're very aware of, and I mentioned in that these are my inspirations. And so you know, I mentioned Aletha Solter and Alfie Kohn and Bush and first school philosophy and principles, and Lawrence Cohn, a few others I can't quite remember. And so they know that and, you know, I specifically say this is a safe space for children to release whatever is going on for them. And so normally parents do come to me with overwhelmed themselves or having a challenge at home with their child. And so I'll say, oh, have you tried this? And, like in regards to separation anxiety, it's a beautiful, holistic approach, because I work on it from this end. And then I actually give them like games and stuff they can play at home, like hide and seek where you hide in a really obvious spot, and then you're so shocked that they found you. Yeah, so then you try again, you just wait, wait, wait one more time, I can find a better hiding spot, and it's equally as awful and obvious, but and then they laugh because, you know, you're so incompetent, and then they feel more powerful. And yeah, there's that sense of separation too. So you're just like working on it in a playful way. And so yes, I do give parents you know, little suggestions and I also hold space for them because it's You know, I've always said that when a child is born, you know, we're very accepting that that child's new to the world. So we can't expect them to know everything and do everything. And they have, you know, feelings and even in approaches where, you know, they do accept that a child cries for reasons. And I'm just like, but parents who are new to, they might not be new to a planet, but they're new to this journey. So instead of seeing yourself as like, above your child, why don't you see yourself together holding hands and, you know, going on this journey together. And so, it's always important for me to support parents, because, you know, seeing your child cry when you're leaving them at drop off is very distressing. And so you want to know that that person who is taking them, you know, has that unconditional empathy and loving the support that they would get in their own home. And so I always send parents messages and just let them know how long their child was crying for and then, you know, it's normally no more than 20 minutes, on average. And sometimes I'll do it like for a few weeks, and each time, it will get less and less and less as they release all those accumulated feelings. And I always send a message. And then once the child has stopped crying, I don't need to hold the space for them anymore. And I send them a picture and like, so they cried for 20 minutes and released some more big, beautiful feelings. And now they're just, you know, eating or playing outside with the other kids or whatever they're doing just because it's that parents need that sense that their child is okay. Yeah, yeah. And, and you know, that they're not just left alone to cry, or they're not distracted while they have all these big feelings.

46:51

Yeah, and I think that's such a great point. I really love how you like us. So honest with the, with the parents about how they actually were throughout the day, because I've certainly been taking my kids drop them off. And then I get a message back saying, Oh, they were fine, they'll find two minutes after you left. And I sort of know that my kid kind of would be, but their feelings aren't necessarily heard. Because they would have just stopped crying, and held them in because they know that it's not really the space for it. And so I really love the fact that you're like, oh, yeah, the child can just continue on until they've, you know, until they've expressed all the things they need to in, in their mom or dad leaving her parents leaving, and that you was like, yeah, they cry for 20 minutes, or 15 or five. And now that this, I just think it's so much more, I don't know, real or reassuring for parents. Mm hmm. Great. So if Tell me a little bit more about your work you do with educators, and like one to one mentoring with educators? And what's what does that look like? And, yeah, tell me a little bit more about that.

48:07

Yeah, so my work with educators, it's very similar to the work we would do as a where parenting instructors for parents, just in a different setting, and in that there is in a work to do like, as you know, a large part of parenting is re parenting yourself. And knowing what, what is yours, and what is your child and, and so educators have to go through that same journey, whether they're apparent or not. Yeah. And so it's about doing that inner work first, and, you know, having space held for the educators, so they know what it feels like. And, you know, going through play, like, you know, being playful and seeing what, how they feel, and like, you know, doing adult play and laughter and so it all comes down to them, and everything always comes down to ourselves first. And so that's, it's yeah, it's the same with educators. It doesn't matter if you're a 16 year old, and want to be an educator and a currently, you know, doing an apprenticeship in a centre or whether, you know, you're in your 50s, and you are a mom already. You all have to do your inner work, especially when it's not your child because it's very different. I know from personal experience that my children press my buttons a lot more than any other child that has ever walked through my door. And so under psych, if I have that strong connection with my own children, that I can do anything. But yeah, it's real educators and teachers really need to do that inner work because when you yell at a child or you use harsh tones with a child, that Jen really comes from your own childhood. And now your child, that child in front of you is at the receiving end of what you went through. And so the cycle continues. And so you, the way to end it is to go back and do that inner work and look at your own childhood, and release all your own accumulated feelings, and have listening partnerships with educators. And then once you feel comfortable with listening to feelings, and being playful, and being aware of what's yours, so they don't project that on the children, then I use their way of parenting tools and say, This is what strategies you can use these things, and this is what you can use for this. And this is the overall thing that you need to use within, you know, your place of work.

50:50

Yeah. I think that is so amazing, because you're right, like, anyone that's working with children, anyone that is looking after children, if it's a grandparent, to a educator, to a teacher, to a parent, it's like doing our own work on what, what is it bringing up in us when our child behaves that way, and it might not be our child. So if it's in your in a childcare setting, or in a in a school, you know, often there's like one or two kids that really like get under the teacher's sort of nerves. But like, what is that and looking at what that brings up for, for the teacher for yourself. So that then you can approach that kid with either listening or play or whatever is needed. But until we've worked on our own stuff, it will continue in that same cycle won't.

51:50

Absolutely.

51:51

Which is so like, I just, it's a big part of why I want to have these conversations is so that if anyone's listening, and you know, they find something irritating in a certain kid. What is that? Like? Looking at what that might be? Because when we can work on our own stuff, you're absolutely right, we then don't project that on to the children in front of us, whoever, whatever the children they are, whether they're ours or

52:22

Yeah, children are the most beautiful mirrors to ever walk the planet. And I know because my eldest son does have diagnoses of autism, ADHD, and anxiety. And so that can trigger you like no tomorrow. And so when you remove all the things that you find upsetting about the raging and the aggression and all that, then you can like into any situation with complete empathy and compassion, because you're not entering that space with your own baggage.

53:00

Yeah. Yeah. Yeah, absolutely. So true. Is there anything else that you would share around your, you know, the natural learning or trusting children with their learning anything that you've noticed around the natural learning side of things?

53:19

Yes. So my passion for natural learning came about because my son does have ADHD. And in a mainstream education environment, children with ADHD don't thrive, and they're classed as inattentive. When really the material is just boring as bad crap. I'm just like, I would find this boring, and I don't have ADHD. And so when my son, I decided to homeschool him, although he's going, if I'm being honest here. He's going back to school next term, because yeah, he wanted to Yeah. And I'm not like I said, I'm not one to hold a person back from what they want to do. So when I did homeschool him for the last two and a half years, we followed a natural learning approach where he told me what he wanted to learn about. So some examples from the last two and a half years as trees astronomy, robotics, engineering, Australian water animals, water systems. And in Queensland, you have to submit a plan to show what you plan to how you plan to support your child's education for the commoner report reflecting back on their work samples of the previous year. And so I let him choose what he wanted to learn about and then I went and put them across every single subject. And so I I never seen myself as a teacher. I don't like the word teacher. I don't like the word educator. I prefer a mentor or facilitator. Yeah. And because children know what they need to know Learn when they need to learn how they need to learn it. And so our roles as parents, or educators, or teachers should just be to facilitate a child's learning by providing resources and opportunities to meet the individual learning interests and needs.

55:19

Yeah. And, you know, you've seen this and I know many aware parenting instructors and people that homeschool their kids will see this happen where their child, you know, naturally learns the things that they want to learn that they're interested in that and at the time that they like in their own timing, which is really hard within a mainstream education, like within our system within our schooling system. So if there's someone that's a teacher or facilitator educator that is in a mainstream school, how, like within the system, is there anything that you would suggest that they could do to allow a child their natural learning within a system? Any sort of, like, advice or anything like that?

56:12

Yeah, I mean, there are schools that do that there's one here in Toowoomba called maridadi that follows children's interests. So they just wait till the child comes with something, and then they see where that fits into the Australian Curriculum. Amazing. So they can do it, right. I mean, in my like, state schools and public schools, it's a bit harder because they, they given what they need to teach. Yeah. But you could do that, and give the children that. And then you could have this little, you know, extra component like saying, Okay, kids were finished this today, what would you like to learn about, and just having these like, little micro moments of natural learning, but they add up because it shows the child that their opinion and their beliefs and values matter? Yes. And it doesn't matter if it's not like for an entire day, you're just showing in that moment, and it's not so much the natural learning aspect, it's that you're really hearing that child or those children. And that's a form of connection. That's unconditional. Yeah. And so I would say it definitely is possible, like, you know, I know teachers are under so much stress. And so many of them disagree with the Australian Curriculum and how it's taught and standardised testing. And so, Elizabeth Gilbert, in magic talks about the chips on which like, everything you do has this one component that's just like a real shit sandwich that you have to deal with. And so, I would say like, that's the Australian Curriculum and standardised testings, but you can work around that like, because, you know, I think a child can learn the entire Maths Curriculum in, I don't know, 20 hours. And, you know, obviously, teachers have to take into consideration every single child because not every single child learns at the same rate. But you do have these free periods, you know, where you could use them as opportunities to meet those needs. And it doesn't have to be expensive, like, teachers don't have to go out and buy these resources, like, a child might be interested in the wind. And then from there, it cascades into, you know, having an experiment of what falls quickly and what doesn't, and they can all just go choose their natural resources from the playground, and then they can, and that's maths, and that's science. And so, learning is everywhere.

58:36

Yeah. Yeah. That is so yeah, that's so great. Steph, thank you so much for coming out and doing it and tell us a little bit more about your what you've got, like where people can find you what you've got coming up. Because I know you're saying you're doing some mentoring and some different things. So fill us in.

58:57

So my two main places where you can find me no matter where you are in the world is my website, which is www.spiritedhearts.net. Or I'm also on Instagram, @spirited_hearts. I do have a online course for early childhood educators coding hole called holding space for big feelings, which you can find on my website. It's actually it's a collaboration with a friend of mine, so it's actually hosted on their website, but you can access it through my website. Yeah, I do do my one on one parenting support. I do do one on one educator mentoring and I am in the process of creating an early childhood educator masterclass, which is more of a overview of you know, doing your own inner work and all that sort of stuff and then from there, then you can access the one on one mentor and once I've released the masterclass the one on one mentoring for more personalised support, you know, not just in educating but it could be in parenting or anywhere in your life because I'm also a holistic counsellor. So, yeah.

1:00:07

Thank you so much, Steph. And I really just want to say, like a huge big thank you for bringing this vision into the world and sharing this with us of what it what's possible with daycare, natural learning Haven what's possible, because I think the more we hear the stories of it being done a different way. It gives parents hope. And it also, I think it can be inspiring for other childcare centres and educators and teachers and for all the people that work with our children, to honour feelings and to honour the child that's in front of us. And so thank you so much for sharing your wisdom and your vision with us because it's so important. And I wish I wish it was like, worldwide. This is how we understood children.

1:01:04

Yeah, me too. I am. It's been my mission for the last eight years. To do this. At first I said I wanted to revolutionise early childhood education and care, but then I'm just like, I don't want to revolutionise it, because I think it's too broken. So I just want to create something entirely new and that new thing can be an add on to anything that currently exist.

1:01:27

Yeah. Yeah. And I like I really see that, like, I can see childcare centres and family daycare centres going, Oh, what is this approach? Okay, yeah, let's bring this into, you know what we've already got, but really seeing children through this new lens or this lens that we see kids through. And I just think it's amazing. So thank you so much for coming on today. And have a lovely day.

1:01:53

Thank you so much for listening. I would love to know your thoughts and feelings and to continue the conversation. You can connect with me on Instagram and Facebook @_Shelleyclark_. If you'd like to keep in the loop for all my resources and offerings as they happen, you can join my mailing list at www.shelleyclarke.com. Thank you for all you are doing. Your parenting is important and powerful. Have a lovely day. Bye for now.