A new mother's story with Lauren Benda

In this episode Shelley Clarke  chats with a very special guest, her sister Lauren Benda! Lauren is a physio of over 10 years and an Upledger advanced trained Craniosacral therapist (which there's only a handful of people in Australia with this qualification and training.) Listen as Lauren candidly discusses navigating the identity shift in becoming a new Mother.
 
In this episode you'll learn about:
- Lauren's journey moving from physiotherapy to a Craniosacral therapist
- how she had to advocate for herself in the third trimester of her pregnancy and birth
- why a Craniosacral therapy  session opened her body to rehearse the birth of her daughter
- why Aware Parenting's listening to feelings helped Lauren's connection to her newborn baby especially after feeding trouble
- how Lauren is navigating the depth and width of this new identity of Mother that she hasn't experienced before

If you are wanting to gain incredible insight to the way you can navigate the medical system whilst birthing and advocating for yourself, then this is the podcast episode for you!

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This podcast is produced by Nikki O'Brien from Quintessential Being

Transcript

 Shelley Clarke  00:00

I wish to acknowledge the traditional custodians of the lands I live on. I pay my respects to the Garner people elders past and present, and honour their ongoing traditions. Welcome to the mind body parenting podcast. I'm your host, Shelley Clarke. Here I talk about all things mind and body and how this relates to ourselves and our parenting. I envision a world where children are seen and heard, and parents feel supported and less alone. Join me here in the power of story, expert knowledge and lived experiences. Let's dive in.

00:40

Today's episode is brought to you by kids in Adelaide. For all the best events, activities, places to visit and things to do with your kids in Adelaide and around South Australia. Visit www.kidsinadelaide.com.au. Welcome back to the mind body parenting podcast. I'm your host, Shelley Clarke. And today I have the absolute pleasure of interviewing Lauren Benda. Lauren is a physio of over 10 years and Upledger advanced trained craniosacral therapists, which there's only a handful of people in Australia with this qualification and with this training, she recently became a mother and especially she is my sister. Hello, Lauren.

01:27

Hi, how are you? Good.

01:30

I'm so glad that we actually get to have this chat officially and record this podcast episode because I've been wanting you to come on here for a while. Obviously, you've just had a baby. So you know, thank you for making the time today to come on and have a chat.

01:49

Yeah, well, thanks for having me. Hopefully, my baby brains not a real thing. I'm sure.

01:57

So let's get started and tell our listeners a bit more about your journey as a physiotherapist and craniosacral therapists and how you came to be doing this that work in the world because we do the same therapy.

02:13

Yeah. So I graduated from physio in 2009, and started my journey in a regional hospital. And, you know, that was a great experience as a new grad, you could work across multiple fields within, you know, the area of physio, and I was super lucky, they were really supportive of PD and you know, you're allowed you to go off and train in different areas. So, with that opportunity, I got introduced to cranial sacral therapy. And at the start, I thought it was the weirdest strangest modality I've ever come across. I know. Yep. So you know, you're trained in quite a muscular skeletal realm. And this was new, it was quite light touch and working in an area of spirit, body mind, and connecting all those. So it was a little bit weird, could integrate it a little bit into the hospital setting. But, you know, just popped up for the time being, I worked my way up into a management role in the hospital, but it wasn't quite for me. So I went into private practice, and then, you know, found that that was a little bit more my calling. And then it was a lot of work and probably got a bit burnt out and my body decided that it would show me away that I needed to slow down and I actually got shingles really quite badly. So I got it in my eye, and all through my head. And I was really sick. And lucky you were there actually and you're at that point in your career where you found cranial sacral therapy and got me into see Aaron Riley from evolve who is a world renowned a therapist. And so from there really my journey began into cranial sacral from the difference in my own body. So I had regular treatments and recovered from the shingles. And you know, from there, I thought this modality is pretty cool. If it can help me that much, I want to help other people that much. So from there, I did a lot of training. So I travelled the world, chasing horses, and you and I were lucky enough to do a lot together. So, you know, went to New Zealand, a lot through Australia. And then I did my advanced training in Australia. And that involved a week of living in together with the other therapists and basically worked on each other in a really in depth way that was beyond explaining almost that it was a deepening in your own body and Your own self, where you could feel totally connected to what you needed to process. And then I sat my certification exam. So I'm a technique certified cranial sacral therapist as well. And then before COVID hit, we were lucky enough to travel to America and the Bahamas and actually did a cranial sacral course with dolphins, which even sounds strange. But, you know, they respond to our bodies, they're their animals, just like us very clever. And we did a lot of water therapy, and the dolphin would come in and assist in that therapy process. So I've been very fortunate to have a lot of training, but also the work on my own body, you can't, you can't explain it. And that's why I love the work so much. So from there, I lived three hours from Adelaide, so I thought why not, you know, delve a little further. And so I took a job that evolved manual therapy, and work there two days a week and would drive back and forth each week, see clients and then come back to the Riverlands. And, and work back here in our business. So I had a really nice balance of not burning out by seeing too many clients in such a deep work environment, but having the balance of being able to come back and just do something completely different in our own business. So that's a bit of my journey. I've, you know, had a lot of training and until you write it down and really look back, you think, Oh, wow, like that's, that's pretty cool. And, you know, lucky enough to be able to do it with you, as well and have some pretty cool mentors along the way.

06:45

Yeah, amazing. And it is, it isn't until you look back that you realise well, how much how much training I've done in the last few years. And, you know, we are lucky enough to have Aaron here in Adelaide, who teaches around the world. And so she has been a wonderful mentor and, and colleague and friend to both of us throughout this journey of learning more around cranial sacral therapy. So So tell me a little bit about because there's a podcast episode about cranial sacral therapy. So if people want to know more about what it is, you can go and have a listen to that podcast episode. But I want to ask you, what are some of the things that you it's helped you with? And how, how much difference it's made in your body?

07:32

Yes, so obviously got into it from being sick myself. But as the journey went on, it's just deepening your awareness of your own body and deepening the feelings within yourself, finding parts of yourself that you might not have known were there. And, you know, really being able to connect body, mind and spirit in a way that maybe just one modality doesn't, I find that this can really work on all aspects of self compared to something else. For me it was, you know, finding a identity or a pain in your body or a thought process or our connection to spirit that your conscious might not be aware of, but your subconscious is aware and can make the links to help yourself feel better.

08:33

Yeah, I love that because, you know, it is a big shift away from our physio paradigm which is often we will say is a find something can you fix it if you go to a physio, you often get a sore back and or a sore knee or something and you're finding something and you try to fix it. And the paradigm with cranial sacral therapy is very much listening to the body and then following the body. And it really is a beautiful modality, like you said in meeting us and that mind body spirit connection and our hands around the body. But we're often processing a lot of things emotionally, aren't we?

09:09

Yeah, yeah, for sure. It's really is that blending and melding of the light touch, but listening to the body. So as a therapist, you're listening to the person's what we call inner wisdom, and really following where they need to go. So they might have a pain in their knee, but you're working up at their neck. And it really shows how the body is connected because you're listening to where that restriction might be or where the primary problems dealing, that they need to work on that they might not be aware of, but you're deep listening to what their needs are. And then as a patient or you know, as a person, you're getting that experience as well. So it's just a different way of working with the body and from a fish Do perspective you know the body? It's just how can you touch it in a gentle way that is, what the person needs.

10:10

Before I get on to the next question, I just want to ask you a little bit about that light touch because a lot of people when they come in to have kind of psychotherapy are quite surprised of how light the touch is to want to just explain why we why it is so light and how, you know a bit about coming in underneath that our bodies sort of defence.

10:29

Yeah, so a big part of my journey has been what I call flying under the radar, though it really is, how can we touch the body in a way without sending it into the flight fight, freeze mode, that stress response that you you've all probably felt, but you know, might not have the awareness around. So how can we work to down regulate that system, without sending it spiralling into more of a frenzy? So the light touch is a way of working with the fascia, the connective tissue of the body, which is a big interweb that combines us all together? How can we touch that, to start to release to unwind to unravel, without spinning it off into more of a stress response. So is flying under the radar in the body, to lightly touch it in what we call maybe five grammes, it might be a little more in a way that then you can connect for that to unwind, and go into what we call the parasympathetic nervous system that Rest Digest repair, relaxed type mode, versus ascending into a, you know, where you're like, oh, yeah, so the modality is quite light touch and often explain it to people in that way, because they might be coming to physio expecting a little more, but they shall leave, you know, feeling a little more wound, you know, in their own body.

12:06

Yeah, and often, that is a big part of what we're doing is helping the nervous system to come back into that more relaxed state. And, you know, so much of our healing happens when we're in that state. And most of us aren't, you know, most of us are in this busy fast paced world and kind of in that doo doo doo, sympathetic overdrive. And certainly, the light touch is a way like I said, I love that analogy of flying in under the radar, because it we're kind of getting in under the coming in under the person's stress response, and then being with the body. So yeah, thank you for that no part

12:46

of it as well, with the physio side of you know, that find and fix, people want it to be fixed for them, and it really becomes an education that, you know, maybe it has taken a long time for your body to feel this way, it might take a little bit of time for it to go back the other way. Like, it isn't a treatment that is just a once off, it really becomes a, you know, an investment in your health, that you're going to, you know, need some time for it to unwind and come back. You know, and not be stuck in one. Yep. Part of it. Yeah.

13:24

Yeah, absolutely. So you have recently become a new mum. And this is sort of what we I really wanted to talk to you about today. Obviously, your journey as a therapist, and you've seen you work with mums and babies a lot in the clinic. But now, as a new mom, I wanted to ask you about your journey into motherhood, how that's been because I know that it has been hard at times, and you have navigated it so beautifully. And your wisdom, really, I just want others to know how you can kind of navigate this time. So do you want to give us a little bit of about that? Yeah.

14:09

So Savannah is three months old now. So growing really quickly, they say that time flies and it really does. So yeah, journey, I guess, you know, we're a little bit older. Callum, my husband and I have our own business. And we, you know, really wanted to build that. And also I wanted to, you know, really get the most out of my career because having a child changes the dynamics. So I really, you know, we waited and even that people, I say, I want to be ready to have kids and I'd respond, oh, you're never ready to have kids. And I said, I said, Oh, you can be you know, I can be ready in my body, my mind emotionally spiritually. And, you know, they didn't quite know how to respond to that. So, you know, I really did want to feel ready in my own body. So cranial sacral helped that process of finding that motherhood, personality within myself. So, you know, once we felt ready, it was, you know, give it a try, we're lucky enough for that to happen. And so during my pregnancy, I, you know, kept going to the gym gym played volleyball to 28 weeks, because they, they were things that were important to me, and I'd often Google should I be playing volleyball at Google didn't tell me. So you know, even then it was trust my own instincts. I'm feet healthy, the baby's protected. And I feel okay, still doing that. So even through that whole journey of pregnancy, early on, I really learned to trust my own body and instincts with what I was doing. Yeah, towards the end, it got a little trickier with, you know, in the regional area, doctor's appointments, and things are a little bit harder to come by. And I now realise I've got white coat syndrome.

16:17

Yes. Tell people a little bit more about what white coat syndrome is. Because if you're a new mother, or if you're pregnant and listening to this, you might not know. And I didn't realise this until you experienced it. And a couple of my midwife friends went, Oh, she's got white coat syndrome. And I was I've never even heard of that.

16:36

Yeah. So, you know, I hadn't really needed to go to the doctor for anything regularly before you go for something and you know, all good. But this was, every time I went to the doctor, my blood pressure would go up. Yeah, like through the roof. And for about an hour before my appointment, I could feel it, my heart started beating faster, I'd get a bit sweaty here. And, you know, I feel like I was a bit of a nervous wreck and, you know, going to the doctor, they're going to check my blood pressure gets high and you know, high blood pressure in pregnancy, they want to rule out preeclampsia and make sure nothing's going on. And I you know, completely get that. You want to make sure that your baby's healthy, that you're healthy, nothing's wrong. But we're lucky enough up here, they've just started the midwifery group practice. So I had my own midwife, she'd come and visit me at home. And whenever she checked my blood pressure, it would be fine. So and that was at home in my environment. So go to the doctor, and my blood pressure would go up, which then was cause a cascading of events that send me over to the hospital, do urine tests, blood tests, check the heartbeat, send me for an ultrasound, that really deep down, I knew I was fine. I knew the baby was fine. But navigating that and advocating for that was really tricky, because there is a small part of you that is worried that something could be happening. Yeah. But this process went on for probably the last 10 weeks of my pregnancy. And it was stressful, because I would be going to a doctor's appointment, but then ended up for five hours in the hospital. And all the scans and tests would show up. All Okay, so for me towards the end, you know it, my blood pressure would go up. And over I go and it then got to the point where I saw a practitioner who wasn't my routine practitioner, and you know, they were the first thing they said was, oh, sorry, I haven't read your notes yet. Jump on the scales. Jump over here, do this, do that, oh, your blood pressure's up, ring over off. I go to the hospital. And by this stage, I was hysterical because I really knew deep down in my body, nothing was wrong. Yep. That how do you advocate that? In a what I'd say is a medical model. So how do you advocate for your own health? When you know your body so well, that? You know, it's it's tricky because you don't want to go against what? The grain. But also you want to make sure that you're doing it in a way that you've been listened and heard yourself? Yeah. So yeah, I got to about I think was about 36 weeks, and I was over at the hospital. And I was just crying uncontrollably. And the doctor came in and she's like, what's going on here? And I was like, I don't, I'm fine. Like, I don't want to be here. And at that point, they'll maybe going to send me to Adelaide to have the baby. And I just knew it myself. I knew my body in my mind that I was fine to have the baby up here in the river land, and nothing would be wrong. So It really become, you know, I felt like a crazy person because I had to be that upset to be heard. Yeah. You know, and this doctor was amazing. She said, I can see this is really distressing. And it's going to be more distressing to send you to Adelaide, than it is for you to be here like, this work. So, you know, super lucky that, you know, I did get heard that day. But it also I looked back and it took a lot of effort to be heard. And it's tricky around that time. Because with COVID, Callum wasn't allowed to attend any appointments. Yeah. So you're there by yourself, you know, really having to advocate for that, it still makes me

20:48

upset. Yeah, and this is the thing, like, it's okay, that you've upset me, it makes me upset because this is what we do to women in our society, the way the medical model, and I'm not, I'm not like, there's beautiful care within the system. I'm not saying that you're not getting beautiful care from your midwives. And, and there are beautiful practitioners out there. But like, we make women fight so hard for what they know, their bodies can do. And many of us don't end up like if you have many years of experience in bodywork and trusting your body and you've done 1000s of hours of sessions and therapy beforehand. So it took you a lot to push push back against this system that we birth in. And this is why I wanted to share your story because it is powerful the way you were able to advocate for yourself and have the birth that you've had. And I hope that if there's a person out there a mother, a birthing person out there that, you know, is experiencing some hard path to get the birth that they want that, you know that this might help. So yes, I'm worth

22:11

it. Like, you know, I look back, and it was hard, that I was really lucky, from that moment that I built the team that I knew I could trust. From now I picked and choose who I would have my appointments with to really, that they listened. And I didn't have to then advocate as hard for what I needed. Yeah, yeah. And I knew that I knew that I could do that up here. If I got sent to Adelaide, I would have just been another number because I hadn't had those prior appointments with whoever it might be. Yeah, it would have been

22:51

even more in the system. And not least you knew the people up in the river land who who were listening to you, and you can

22:58

and I knew that that's what I wanted. Because, you know, they were the the best I wanted the best. So that that really was hard. And you know, I look back and still that I must have looked like a really crappy person. But I also now think, Gosh, I advocated so hard for my own health. Yes. And my own well being what does it have to be that hard? I wanted it wasn't? Yeah, and what are the people who aren't as in tune in their body? Doing that, you know, that's where I think if we can help someone speak up, or ask one more question, or, you know, really say, is that what I need right now, then, you know, that's why I'm happy to speak about it and really show some emotion in the sense of what my body still feels about that process. Yeah.

23:55

Because it is that like, the fear that often and I know that the medical model, and they are there for worst case scenarios, and I know that and they save lives, and yes, important on, you know, very small percentage of the birth. But the fear that is often induced in the mother by some of the suggestions and by the lack of just her of just seeing her and what's what's going on for her. So important to remember that there's a person that you're about to ship up here and ship off there and, and, you know, say these flippant comments around and actually haven't actually stopped and stopped to listen.

24:38

Yeah, yeah. So really, you know, it was quite a process. And then so they're from my birth from there. Savannah came 11 days over. So even at day 10, I got induced, which I was happy because, you know, come teen days and it's And I knew that you need that input. So, which didn't work the first time around. So then the next day they induced again, and they were coming back that afternoon to break my waters. And at at two o'clock, so the midwife at two o'clock opened the door and was just checking in to say the doctor was running a bit late. And at that moment, my waters broke naturally. You know, she must have known that point. It just was, you know, the weirdest thing. She said, I Oh, going okay, in here. Does that Oh, I think we're on. Yeah, you know that that process in itself was nice that you know, what, it was a blend of needing that assistance, but also my body being able to do do that process. So the birth, then itself was quite quick. So it was two hours and 50 minutes. So Cal, my husband was pretty pumped, here was some three hours, he thought that was really cool.

Shelley Clarke  26:04

Like a three hour marathon.

26:07

But even that process itself, I was, you know, we were both pretty independent. We talked a lot about the birth prior, and, you know, pain relief, I really wanted to try and see where my threshold was. So we actually had a safety word, if that I'm yelling out the safety word, you know, give me something, but if, you know, not there, like, just let me see where my limit is. So you know, just having some a support person with that knowledge is really help. Helpful. So yeah, the birth itself, you know, backtrack a little bit in that I had a cranial sacral session, at about probably would have been 30 weeks. With Aaron. And I was lucky enough, she had another practitioner in with her. So we had what we call multi hand sessions. So two therapists, and my body just went into a deep birthing process. Yeah. But it wasn't my own birth. It was savannas birth. Yeah. And it even was, I set up at the end of it. And I thought, Gosh, that was strange. How does that work? Like, how am I birthing this baby before it's even happened. And it really goes back to there's birth cells in my body from my own birth. But there's all so birth cells from my mom and dad's birth, and my siblings, births within my genetics. And so those cells can be activated to experience the birth before it happened. So with this experience, I could picture and feel the whole birth and how it was going to play out what positions I needed to be in for her to descend and come out. And so I just had this feeling in my own body that I'd already done it before. Yeah.

28:13

Oh, gosh, I was gonna interrupt just there keep you like, remember where you're at, too, because that is so powerful. And I know people that are listening might be going wow, like what, you know, how's that work, but it's a bit like activating, you're activating your deep body memory, of how to birth and this is what all women we all we all have this within us a deep knowing and a deep body memory of how what our bodies need and trusting our bodies and on how to birth. And I just think that's such a powerful and you kind of like almost imagery dialogue. And say, when you're a sports person in your life, using your imagination to imagine the race lag ahead of time you're using that same thing so that what would have happened in your life, um, just so that people understand the session and that deep sort of emotional process of, of you were going through that birth process before it happens. So you just knew

29:12

you had it. It really in my body, I knew I had it. I knew that I had the birth and maybe that's why I advocated so hard, my own health because I'd had the session around the birth and had visualised it happening in Greenland and visualised who was there and visualised the positions, but it's more than just the visualised you can feel it in your own cells because of the light touch and the Connected, you know, fascist system and the connectedness of, you know, the muscular system and the blood vessels and everything. You had experienced it before. And, you know, all along I was like, you know, it's an Not to say it could go this way. But I know is going to be safe to do it. Like I really felt a deep sense that it was safe and whatever was needed medically. I was going to be okay with because I had that experience already. Yeah.

30:19

And what about fear? What do you have any like, is that did were you afraid of anything? Or was because you've done that process? Like there was no sort of fear around birthing, or?

30:29

Yeah, I think because I've done that process. There wasn't the fear that maybe others experience. But also, I work a lot with birth trauma. You know, I really do specialise in paediatrics and family centred practice. And so I had heard and seen a lot and, you know, part of me that could have been fearful, and there was definitely the real fear of how is this thing gonna come out of there? Yeah. And, you know, part of it as well, your body goes through, you know, a lot of my friends up here, you know, had all had natural births. And you know, what happens if I can't do that as well. So it's probably more of that comparison type, fear and judgement fear, versus, you know, an actual body of sending me into a nervous system response. Yeah. But it was really, you know, I knew deep down that that that was going to be okay. And I've done a lot of work to not be in delivering when I'm fearful. Yeah, amazing. So, yes, that session, and then had the session and had visualised it. And so when my waters broke, I just knew what was going to happen. And I'd talked it through with Callum he knew he knew all about that session as well. So he was, you know, really supportive of it. And because I was the first time actually the midwives that sort of plan to be there all night and had a night night crew on and, you know, they were working at the doctors working out, she could have an extra glass of wine, and there was a lot of a lot of chitchat. And then they didn't say much, because, you know, I went from word ago and was in quite a bit of pain, and they didn't want to check me in case, you know, it hadn't progressed as much, and maybe it was posterior. And that's why I was in a fair bit of pain. And so I asked for a check because I thought if this both for another 30 hours, I'm gonna need something. And you know, not not knowing the scale of things of how far along so I asked for a check. And I know you're doing so well with your breathing like, keep keep going it you know, you're doing so well. And I know ways will check you in an hour. Yeah. And I thought, Oh, now I don't know if I can do an hour. Yeah. Anyway, the next contraction was really quite fierce. And I felt like I could push Yeah, because in standing to cross my legs to hold, obviously, at the time her head in and was holding it in. And then I said, Now that you have to check me like I'm ready to push. I don't know if I came in. Yeah, nine centimetres. So then, you know, change position, and the next contraction just pushed their head out. Yeah. They weren't quite ready. So everyone's running everywhere. And I just saw a whole lot of mess going everywhere and thought me gizzards fly now. And so I'm like, what's happening? What's going on? You know, in that moment, it the room went silent. And I, I said, you know, what, what do I do? What's happening? Are you going to rush me to surgery? So at that point, it was like, what's going on? Because it's just the communication. Yeah, yeah. It wasn't there. Oh, no. Oh, good. Just, you know, got the last bit to go. So you know, that that part of it, you know, was quite fast. Yeah. We were really lucky got a lot of skin to skin time and delayed cord clamping and which I think is great. Those things now, you know, coming in to be important and the knowledge and evidence around that. So, you know, we're really lucky. And then we went home the next day, and we had some really supportive midwives, you know, that come every day. But she was born with a significant tongue tie. Yeah. And, you know, I knew it was there from looking at a chin and tongue ties are quite controversial, you know, from a therapy point of view. hadn't released. And up here, I didn't quite know where the doctors that with them, obviously I worked with them a lot as a therapist, so I didn't want to be that therapist saying, Oh, my kid's got a tongue tie. So I just sort of sat on it that the doctor actually did our assessment and the midwife and say, oh, there's a tongue tie there, but see how you go like if it's functional? Oh, yes. Yeah, go. Anyway, so breastfeeding was quite challenging.

35:30

You know, she, she had a very big tongue tie. But so I would say, you know, feedings very painful or yet feedings, painful, like, it will come good. And I've been putting this lanolin lanolin cream on, and I said, I've gone through a whole tube already called Tube they last a couple of years. You know, at that point, I thought something might not be quite right. And I was lucky enough, actually, that Aaron and yourself came up and visited me. And at that point, really confirmed that it was a significant time needed. So sort of started on that journey as well. Getting it released, and then in the therapy behind that. So yeah,

36:16

thank you so much for sharing that whole journey. Because there's, I think it's amazing when we get to hear other people's stories, and we It sparked it might spark something in us, and it might spark some curiosity in our own preparation for birth or even afterwards on processing afterwards, or the breastfeeding journey. Do you want to tell me a little bit more about what has been hard in that time? Like since she's been born?

36:46

Yes. So well, yeah, it was a whirlwind couple of weeks to begin with, because grandma passed away as well. We, you know, had a trip to Adelaide for that for her funeral. But then also had a tongue tie release. So that was with a laser. And then you need to do stretches and things after so learning those for Callum, so he could help out as well. And then the feeding was really tricky, because I've been pumping and syringe feeding to get very to the Thai release, and had yourself my sister in law as well come up and would help out. So I'd pump and they'd feed with the syringe. And for some reason, I was really particular, I didn't want to introduce a bottle at that stage, I really wanted to try and maintain breastfeeding. So I was lucky to have help around that and Callum would do a lot of the feeds but I was pumping every two hours to maintain my milk supply. She had a tie release. And you know, I thought great, she's doing really well fed. But she was obviously fatiguing and not draining as much as the pump and so I then got mastitis in both

38:06

sides. Yeah. And

38:09

quite significantly, but I thought, oh, people come to a physio for that. I can do it myself. So I was in the shower. I was massaging I was doing you know, the hot packs the cold packs, you know the things that could but had the fevers, the sweats, the body aches, one night I said to come, you're gonna have to pull me out of bed. I can't get up. And, you know, I just thought I just thought I could get through it. Luckily had my two week doctor check in she gave me a script for antibiotics. Yeah. And I took them and within half an hour, I felt a million dollars and thought, Oh, why didn't I ask you?

38:51

To asking for help is hard for a lot. A lot of people especially in this newborn phase,

38:57

and you know, knowledge is power. Yes, but sometimes too much knowledge can be tricky, too. We can treat it, we can treat ourselves but, you know, asking for help is important. So yeah, the mastitis then also caused my milk supply to drop. And because she'd had a bit of a rough start with the feeding, she wasn't getting back to birth weight. So then I had the, for me it was quite stressful, you know, feeding her trying to get her to birth weight and getting weighed often. You know that that was triggering in my own body. And so I knew she was healthy. She was a good colour. She was growing but you know, the scales weren't reflecting that. Yeah. So when she hit birth weight, it just really felt like the pressure was off. And you know, they talk about the village takes a village to raise kids and it really does that I had a couple of really good friends ones speech pathologist who specialises in paediatric feeding and another friend who's actually a physio, but they've both got new little babies, and between them came every day. And we also topped up with some of their milk, just to help Savannah get back to her birth rate, and, you know, grow, and also take the edge off why my milk was still establishing

40:24

yet again, yeah, it's such an important piece to touch on there, the pressure that you know, and you've got some incredible support around you. But for anyone that's listening that might not, you know, the pressure that we often put on back like put on mothers to, for the babies to get to birth, when it might be only like 10 grammes off or something, but it's like, it's so yeah, it's just another thing that often new mums are dealing with. So, you know, I

40:53

was really lucky to have a great support network of friends and the midwives that came and actually had a midwife, student who's really good. And you know, that check in with you regularly. But also, it's hard when they don't ask how are you? Yeah. So, you know, she's gaining weight, and the scales are looking good. And there's more to me than my sleep. Yeah, there's water me then how is their feeding going? That really, I was lucky that there were other people in the village that would ask and really want to listen? You know, because I think you get a bit wound up and this question has come up almost every day. Are she a good baby?

41:44

Question. And I say,

41:46

Oh, yes, she's a good baby. I don't know what a bad baby is, though. It's such a frustrating to answer with. She's a bad baby. Like, I don't know what that means. So, you know, definitely the feeding has been tricky. But you know, now we're lucky enough, she had the tire released, and we have had incredible support. But also, I've gone to Adelaide, at least monthly for cranial sacral sessions. And that's just helped with, you know, keeping her tongue moving, keeping other structures in the body moving, helping with head shape. But it's quite funny. At my last appointment, the therapist said, are Lauren, just remember, you're a therapist as well, you could do something in between,

42:39

though, when you're a mom?

42:42

Because I'm like, Oh, yes, I am. But I'd obviously gone too far in mum mode. And, you know, I could do a couple of little things here and there.

42:51

I think sometimes I don't treat my own kids, because you're, you're a mum to them. You forget, you know, you it's very usual to not necessarily treat your kids, especially when you've got so many other things to think about in the newborn stage. So, yeah, and just on that good and bad. Like, are they a good baby? Can we please like, we change the question to Yes. How are you going as the mother as opposed to other goods? Sleeper? Are they a good baby? Like, exactly, they're just, it's so stress inducing for the mother and the parents. Because babies wake during the night, it's very physiologically normal for babies to wake during the night to feed regularly. You know, it's just we need to start to, I don't know if people are well intentioned, but we need to start to ask like, how are you? for that? For the mother? And for the parents? Yeah,

43:47

yeah. So with, you know, the feeling was hard. And if I also look a bit deeper in that width, you've created a new identity that you haven't experienced before. Yeah. So you soon become a mother figure. But you actually haven't felt that before? Yeah. You know, your own mother, and you've seen other people be a mother, and you can do the imagery and the rehearsing and that felt sense. But until you're actually in it, it's hard. And so for me as well, I found, you know, you hear that as soon as they're born, there's that rush of love. Yeah. For me, that didn't come. You know, it was like, Oh, this, ooh, she's here. And you just stare at it. But you know, for me, I really had to work on that connection and that love and that, you know, felt sense. Yeah. Within your own body. So even just identifying that for some people, you know, I think is important because it wasn't a rush of love straightaway. For me, it was something that you know, because Maybe the feeding was tricky. And yeah, and hard that you had to work on it in a different way. And so for cranial sacral therapy, that's been, you know, something that's helped me to feel that really feel my heart up. It's love for her. Yeah, versus it just happening, which is

45:21

so incredible. Again, another reason why I love this tea and having it early on is that you've been able to identify these feelings, like within a few weeks of her being born. And so because I remember the same feeling, because painful breastfeeding was so painful for me with my first I was like, Oh, I don't want to feed. And then I thought I was the only one in the world that would resent feeding my baby, that must make me you know, a terrible mother. And that same sort of connection took a long time to really feel and I want to say that that is often quite common. And if we don't know that we can, we can feel like oh, we're the only ones in the world that haven't got a deep loving rush of like instant love when our babies come out. Because there's been all these other things to manage. Often there's, you know, surgery tears to fix or feeding to do or something going on. And it can be so a lot for new mothers that it is so important, like you said to process what's happened have a way of processing what's happened so that you can come back into your heart, and really feel that it's beautiful. Yeah,

46:33

come back into your own body and fill as well and not just be in that one identity. It's your body's important to

46:44

Yeah, yeah, incredible. So let, let's go to asking about listening. Because, you know, we've talked about CST, we've talked about your journey with advocating for yourself, and the importance of kind of processing. And we'll talk a bit more about processing the birth in a minute. But you've also done a lot of listening with, from an aware parenting point of view, and listening to Savannah do want to talk a little bit more about what you've noticed with when you've listened to her tears? And how you've done that. How do you know? How do you know she needs a really big cry? Or does she need to be fed? Or what's the process? Well, I

47:27

guess we're really lucky that we have, you know, I have a sister that's an expert in the field. And, you know, we've done a lot of, you know, talking about it. And also Cowen's awareness around that, I think has been really important. As you know, the dad, he can be involved in her emotional well being. But listening basically, from the start, you know, babies are meant to cry, babies cry, and they need to be heard. And listen to. And so for us, you know, we knew that. Well, to be honest, at the start, she didn't really cry, we thought, Oh, she's so calm, then realise that her tongue tie was quite restrictive, that she couldn't actually lift her tongue to cry. So once that was released, you know, then she really did explore her voice and her cry. And we would listen to her. So it involved eye contact. She really loves her hands like held in her chest, and really supported in her body as though she's in a nice noncollege hug. Because she's been in utero for nine months. And she's used to that sort of feeling in her body. And so you get a sense that she's a bit agitated, she might be wiggling a bit more. She might be her eyes go a bit read. You can tell she's getting tired. And so you know, you've just changed her nappy. She's had a feed. She's had a couple of burps anything on her. She just needs to listen. Yeah. And so we're at a point now where we just hold her little hands in a chest and she'll start to have a cry. Yeah. And so she'll cry. let rip. Go forward. Yeah, and you, you know, listen, so it's you don't pick up your phone, you don't have the TV on. You know, sometimes we might take her into the bedroom, and you can just really be connected to her feelings. And she will tell us a story. Yeah. And so you'll listen. Sometimes you reach a limit in that your own body, you can start to feel yourself get a little agitated. You start to wonder in your mind and a few times I've had to say I'm at my limit, will continue listening to this next time. And she might then do a big huff and like this Ah, yeah, go, okay, yeah, mums at a limit, or you listen, you've got time that you listen to it till she's done, where she will just take a nice big breath or eyes will flutter a little bit her hands have gone floppy that if you release, you know, holding them, they stay in position. So it really is just watching those little cues in their body that you can tell they're relaxed. Yep. That, you know, five minutes later, there might be another little wiggle and a little squeeze out of another feeling weak and, you know, obviously goes again into a bit more of a cry. Yep. But you set your time limit or, you know, until you can't listen anymore, but often because she was listened to quite early some of those being feelings haven't built up. Yeah, you know, body. Yeah. And we're really lucky that you were able to do a session with her quite early on actually. Because I had been listening, Callum had been listening. But it just went that one step further. And it was a listening that was deeper than I had gone. Because obviously, the feelings were triggering for me as well. Yeah, it's

51:21

really hard to listen to

51:22

a baby. Yeah. And so obviously, then that made me realise I had some stuff in my own body to process. Yeah, well, my feelings. You know, and they are a little reflection of our feelings, as well, and vice versa. So if I'm feeling a bit wound up, she's probably a bit wound up. And so you know, if I felt listened to, then I'm in more capacity to listen to her. Yeah. So for us, we've been able to listen to her every day. Sometimes it's a little bit more, depending if we're, you know, what we've got on? And, you know, I remember having the chat with you actually have well, how do you do things? You know, because I had been making sure I listened to everything. And how do you get out the house, she just wants all their feelings recently, you know, putting that limit on, it is important as well to say, you can have five minutes to these feelings, but then we've got to get in the car and go or,

52:28

yeah, listen to all of our kids feelings. It's just it's not possible. But we can listen to a majority or as many as we have time for in the day. And

52:39

yeah, yeah. So you know that that part of it, I would really recommend seeing someone for a listening or a craniosacral session, or whatever the modality might be, because it just then sets up a different awareness of you know, they're safe if they go that bit harder.

53:01

Yeah, and what your meaning like you're describing, just for those listening is like, I remember, you know, this was only a few weeks ago, where I came to your house, and you know, she had been feeding every, like, hour, an hour and a half or something. And every Grizzle and you had been like, I think she's hungry. And I was like, I don't, you know, like, do we, you know, let's see, and we were listening. And because I was there and able to listen with you. She actually went through a bit of a birth process that that day and did a huge big cry. And I was able to hold you and her and you know, listen to both feelings. And, and that really, then you write in terms of having someone else that sort of really listened and knows this is okay, I've got you both. Nothing here is too big. We've met all the other needs. We've, you know, she has been fed and nappy change and close contact and cuddled and held and really supported here. This is this is okay. I think having like said a session or two or three or however many with that is really helpful in early stage.

54:11

And I mean that it links into the cranial sacral where we're really listening to what we call significance detector. Yeah. And that, you know, is a sign that what happening in the body is really important. Yeah. And so, using that training, you know, in that aspect of being able to listen, you know, is what's happening in a cranial sacral session. Yeah. A deep listening to the body.

54:42

Yeah. And it really, I'm sure you won't mind me sharing, but at one point in that listen, that she was having a really big cry and kind of turned her head and her body and then you could feel like a pain in your pelvis. And so this is the bit that At I, that we see all the time in the craniosacral, in the clinic with therapy, and I've experienced with my own kids, and now you that the mother and child are so connected, and the the body sense and the awareness and the way we process the births is so connected that often we might put a hand on the Mother in in the clinic and the baby shifts or something happens in the baby. And then the mother takes a big breath. And so this is the real deep processing work that is so profound. Do you want to share a little bit more about that?

55:37

Yeah, so when we're in that session, and also, I've had a session with Aaron as well, quite close after the birth, and just that felt sense in my own body around the birth. And, you know, the feeling within me that I had to hold her head in that, you know, I was probably ready to push and it had created and it had some stitches and things. But it had created quite a strain pattern through my pelvis. And so when she was having the birth process and the listening, well, you described just before of a head turning and working her way out, I felt this pain in my pelvis that I'd been experiencing a little bit if I sat for too long. Yeah. And so I said, Oh, you know, I'm just going to change my position. So I physically moved my own body into a different position. And that pain eased and then the release happened in savannahs body. And we were just able to change the way the birth felt in our cells. And so instead of holding trauma there or pain there, we're able to change the way ourselves remembered what happened. And, you know, we might not be able to do that for everything, but it's the feeling in our body that changed. Yeah, so I no longer felt like that was traumatic in that experience, but was softening and my pelvis is able to move in a way that's healthy for now. Yeah.

57:14

Yeah. Yeah, incredible. Because we can hurt we hold we hold that imprint in our bodies from that moment of, you know, of what's happened. And then really, the way we can integrate that and allow that emotional release, and it shifts, we then we don't hold that in our bodies in the same way. So that was really profound. And, you know, that's a combination of cranial sacral therapy and listening to feelings. And this is why it just blends so beautifully. What do you notice in her after she's had a big cry, and what are the chat? Yeah, just for those that listening.

57:55

So the listening often she'll have big listen before asleep. Yeah. So she's getting she's played. She's fed. She's, you know, had connection time. And then she'll be ready for asleep. And sleep is a big one at the moment. Like she sleeps a lot with us during the day. So we've been doing a lot of connected sleeping during the day, but at night, she'll happily go in her bassinet. Yep. So during the day, you sort of know that she's ready for asleep, and then she'll have a big cry. And she'll take a nice big breath. She'll be nice and floppy in her limbs, her heads a lot looser, you can just see in her face that it's softer around her jaw, she's not clenching. She's not in fists with her hands have fingers are open. And it's just a sense that she's relaxed. Yeah, that then if we do put her down, she doesn't wake up again. That you can put her in a little sleeping bag and she'll, she'll sleep for a couple of hours. And then, you know, if she does, you can kind of then go, oh, maybe she's hungry now. Or, you know, when she's screaming, you go she hungry. She this she's that. You know, I now just listen for another five minutes, and she'll calm down and you go, okay, she is actually hungry, that she was just needing to release those feelings. And she probably wouldn't have fared very well if I tried to put her on. Yeah, he's that distressed. Yeah, but she's not actually distressed. She's just telling me that she's got feelings.

59:42

That's so such an important point there and you kind of touched on it before as well with your own awareness because when I first started this 10 years ago, or this is in being a mother, when I became a mother 10 years ago, I did not know about feelings and cry. I'm being part of something that a child needs. And so as soon as the baby would cry, one of my kids, I would like, I'd have this sort of rising stress in my body of like, okay, we're going to put a boob, you know, like, the feed on and I would sort of rush in, and I didn't realise that I could actually just be going really slowly, I could just listen to them for a little bit and then work out what they needed, and that my body was a big factor. Yeah, talk about that.

1:00:34

Yeah, definitely. Like, even at the start, I would, you know, she wasn't gaining weight. So, I one night, I don't think I left my feeding chair because it was, I've got to feed her. She's got to gain weight, like, just kept her on there. And she nibbled and I was just in a lot of pain. But you know, I've got to feed this baby. Yeah. And then you take a step back and go, hang on, what's going on here? And, you know, that's where I was lucky that I did have some help to have that external influence and, you know, creative feeding plan and, you know, not so much timing it but really looking at their cues. And, you know, at night, I can hear this little nibbling noise and go, Okay, she's waking for a feed, that are actually capture at that point, before she's too far that feed is going to be tricky. So really is looking at those little cues for whatever it is and knowing your baby, trusting your own instincts. And that motherly instinct, your gut feel, because that is so powerful. Yeah. And even now, if I'm a bit like, oh, Callum, either, you know, what do you reckon he's like, Well, what's your gut say? Like, what's your feeling? Say? Oh, okay. Now I think she needs to listen and asleep. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. And I'm really lucky that Callum is, you know, supportive of it that he'll say, Oh, I'm going to take it for a listen and asleep. Yeah. And you know, they go in and have a have that their connection time and listening? And are you telling me a story and what, you know, what is it that you want to say today, and all you had a busy day you went out and about and you know, really listening to that it's it is powerful? Because otherwise you can get wound up in a particular thing? For me it was feeling for someone else, it might be sleep for someone else it might be, you know, whatever it is, so yeah, yeah.

1:02:40

I think there's a couple points there. The dads, you know, they can listen, and they can build a connection with babies. Because, you know, like, that's, that's their time, they can equally Listen, just as well as the mother. And it's so important that it also gives you a bit of that time, so you're not having to kind of feed feed and have and then do all the stuff with a baby.

1:03:04

Yeah. Yeah. And, you know, from cows perspective, he's like, one 50% of this. And, you know, his pet hate is when someone says, Oh, you're babysitting. Yeah, that will No, I'm parenting. Yes, I'm the dad. Yeah, you know, he, he really is on board with it. And it is so helpful, because I can't physically listen or emotionally listen to all their feelings. No,

1:03:31

no. And the other point I was gonna say is when you're feeling a bit too much in your body, like what's the, what do you do? What's the things that you do to ground or

1:03:42

feeling a bit revved up or ramped up or, you know, just to be anxious in your own, you know, self, I take a deep breath, I sit back on my seat bones, like, sit right back in my chair, stretch my shoulders, but take a really deep breath and feel the bottom of the lungs. That you know, when you're feeding and caring and picking, you do get that sort of forward posture and tight and a bit wound up. But there's so many important nerves that run straight through there that by taking a deep breath and stretching out, it's just gonna calm that system down. So for me taking a deep breath, sitting back and going, Oh, that's my stuff. That's my feeling. You know, that. That's for me is how I've then been able to listen or then, you know, work out what's needed next. Yeah. Yeah.

1:04:35

Incredible. Thank you so much. Is there anything else that you had that you wanted to share with the listeners today?

1:04:43

Well, I just hope by being able to talk about my experience and my journey, really to from a therapist into motherhood and you know, being able to combine those, we also run our own coffee business. So you know, has been quite a juggle of, you know, my maternity leave hasn't quite looked like you know some other peoples that are still have been working. But you know, being able to listen to your own body as well as important and getting the help that you need for your own body because having a baby is a big thing for your own system. And then also being able to combine that in with your family is important. But you know, for me it is more around whatever modality you use, making sure that you're finding the touch the listening and the love that you know, your family needs. And it's really the greatest gift you can give to your baby. Yeah, yeah, connection and that light touch that listening. And you know, the love that you can give, that's what's going to help them grow and thrive and be the best they can be.

1:06:00

I love that so much looking after yourself, making sure you're getting well looked after whether that's whatever modality you know, but having massage or Cairo or physio or craniosacral, looking after yourself and getting yourself listened to and supported. So that then you can have that love and presence and connection that you give to your child. I think and because you're right, like being with our babies, and just looking at them, giving them eye contact. And being there with them is is the most important. Like it's the biggest gift we can give them. I think that's a beautiful thing to finish. Thank you. Thank you so much. We could talk for hours, but then I know probably bore everyone. But would you like to just talk because I know you're not working at the moment in terms of as a therapist, which much the people in the Riverland would love you to start working as a back again, as a CST therapist. Do you want to talk a little bit about your coffee business because you have a coffee business and cafe in the Riverland that sells brilliant coffee?

1:07:13

Yeah, so Callum and I started a Arrosto coffee back in 2011. So we roast our own coffee beans. And then we converted the old Renmark fire station into a cafe. And so we run that business seven days a week and we send coffee all over Australia. And then we also make a cold drip concentrate, which is like for iced coffees and have a full production facility where we do that. So we've got a pretty busy business I have I think about 18 staff now and you know, it is a is a spot in the Riverland it's become a tourist destination, but also for locals to come and enjoy a good cup of coffee. And you know, I now realise the benefits of caffeine. You got Yeah. So at the moment, you know, it is a is a balancing act of you know, baby and business and that still, you know, honouring the other parts of myself too. So, you know, it is a good spot to be. I'm very lucky that I've got a flexible job though. So yeah, yeah, if you ever in Renmark come and visit us for coffee and get your caffeine hit.

1:08:26

Yeah. And also, if you're a new mom and live elsewhere in Australia, they're cold drip is amazing. We'll put a link in the show notes to a Arrosto. And you can order online on their website and you ship that out. So that is a beautiful product. And I know many people that love your cold drips. So just a little plug there for a Arrosto coffee. Thank you so much for coming on Lauren. It has been lovely and amazing. Always. So thank you for being the best sister in the world. I love you so much. And I will speak to you soon.

1:09:02

Cool. Thanks for having me. Love you too.

Shelley Clarke  1:09:05

Thank you for listening. This episode was brought to you by 21 days of play my self paced course to help bring more play into your every day. Thank you so much for listening. I would love to know your thoughts and feelings and to continue the conversation. You can connect with me on Instagram and Facebook @_Shelleyclark_ If you'd like to keep in the loop for all my resources and offerings as they happen you can join my mailing list at www.shelleyclarke.com Thank you for all you are doing. Your parenting is important and powerful. Have a lovely day. Bye for now.