Empowering Children to stay connected to who they are with Zoe Haack

In this episode Shelley chats with child activist and Author of 'You Already Knew' Zoe Haack. 
As a motherhood mentor, Zoe is driven to see children experience freedom and autonomy and uses her voice to explore child rights issues, and is the co founder of Akuna concepts. She believes that by bringing awareness to parents, we have the capacity to create great change for the children of today. 

In this episode you'll learn about:
- how Zoe brought the idea of her book into fruition from writing notes in her phone across weeks and months of breastfeeding
- why people should think twice before giving unsolicited parenting advice out in public
- what makes Zoe want to shift the way we as a society perceive step parents
-  the crucial role that language plays in our children's internal dialogue as they grow
- how to reconnect children back to their own innate ideas and wisdom... and so much more!

 
If you are wanting to create a generation of future adults who aren't trying to unpack their childhood wounds, then this is the podcast episode for you!

21 days of play course

Continue the conversation with Shelley here:
https://www.facebook.com/shelleyclarkemindbodyparenting
https://www.instagram.com/_shelleyclarke_/

Find Zoe Haack here:
https://akunaconcepts.com/
https://www.instagram.com/zoe.haack.childactivist/


This podcast is produced by Nikki O'Brien from Quintessential Being

Transcript

 Shelley Clarke  00:00

I wish to acknowledge the traditional custodians of the lands I live on. I pay my respects to the Kaurna people elders past and present, and honour their ongoing traditions. Welcome to the mind body parenting podcast. I'm your host, Shelley Clarke. Here I talk about all things mind and body and how this relates to ourselves and our parenting. I envision a world where children are seen and heard, and parents feel supported and less alone. Join me here in the power of story, expert knowledge and lived experiences. Let's dive in. Today's episode is brought to you by kids in Adelaide for all the best events, activities, places to visit and things to do with your kids in Adelaide and around South Australia. Visit www.kidsinadelaide.com.au.

00:56

Hello, and welcome back to the mind body parenting podcast. I'm your host Shelley Clarek. And today I have the pleasure of chatting with Zoe Haack. Zoe is an author, child activist and motherhood mentor, driven to see children experience freedom and autonomy. She uses her voice to explore child rights issues, and is the co founder of Akuna concepts. She believes that by bringing awareness to parents, we have the capacity to create great change for the children of today. Welcome, Zoe.

01:29

Hello, Shelley. It's fabulous to be here with you today.

01:33

Thank you for coming on here. I was really looking forward to chatting with you. I read your book. So you have just written a book ‘We Already Knew’ which I really loved. And yeah, so do you want to start to share a little bit more about what you do? Like your story how you came to write that? And now how you work with with parents and with people in the world? Yeah, fabulous.

02:01

I would love to Shelley. So like all stories, there's probably about 100 different ways that we could, absolutely, and down the line. So I'll I'll do my best to cover off on as many of those bases as I can. So yeah, for me, working. And supporting children and families has always been really important to me. I want to see children thrive in their families and in their communities. Doesn't get me kind of really emotional when I think about the variation and experiences that children have. And I really want to see our kids having the very best start to life so that we have a generation of adults in the future, who aren't trying to unpack their childhoods as much as our generation is and aren't trying to look for how they can break the curses of their families or the generational traumas that they've inherited. So for me, that's the driving force. So when we conceived and we had our little fellow wiry, I have a beautiful stepdaughter, also she is my first true love of little person, it's a really interesting thing to do to learn to love a child who's already on the planet not to grow them within within you and to be part of that whole journey. So that's a whole different one. But when we were growing wiry our first son and he was born, it really ignited that next level within me of okay, so how can I support more families to to really get the fire in their belly and to want to create change and to want to say I can do this, I can stop things that are unhealthy with me, I have got the capacity. And so that's where the idea of you already knew really came to fruition. So worry was only really small, a little infant when I started putting pen to paper and mostly writing notes in my phone across weeks and months of breastfeeding and all of the things you know renting with my husband and asking him to pass me my phone in the shower and an old hours in the middle of the night when an idea of something that I thought was really important for parents and for people to reflect upon would come to me and sort of just flowed naturally from there. And so you already knew is the beginning for me when it comes to writing down and sharing my thoughts. It could have ended up being you know, a book that was 6 million pages long, but let's face it when we're parents with young children, we don't have the capacity to read a book that 6 million pages long Yeah. And to be okay with creating this first piece of information is first offering To share, and really what it's about is it's, it's not like most parenting books, it's not going to give you 10 steps to parenting happiness, it's not going to promise to make any of the things that you don't like about family life go away, what it what it is going to invite you to do is to look at yourself, and to look at what you believe. And to be really solid in that. Something I guess that stands out for me is that a lot of people say, oh, you know, I hate it when I get people in the street. Come and give me unsolicited advice, or they, you know, they want to try to tell me how to do things and, and it really is very rarely my experience. And, and often I'll joke and I'll say, well, maybe I just have the face that says like, Don't even. But I think that it's more than that. I think that when you get a little bit more solid in what you believe and in why you're doing what you do, those comments don't come because you don't have that brief moment of terror when your toddler does something that is, you know, inverted commas inappropriate in the sense that you're able to meet your child instead of scanning the room for what all the other adults think. And when you remain really connected to your child instead of looking for the judgement of other adults. Adults kind of melt away. And I think that's more the point of, of why that and don't get me wrong, it happens sometimes. But it's very rare. In in my world for for us to receive that kind of feedback, the stuff that can really unnerve and rattle mums and have them wondering if the decisions they're making any good. And like we've got enough of that going on in our own heads. We don't need the random passerby in the shopping centre to give us a piece of them or Yeah,

06:51

yeah, it's so interesting. You say that, because now that I'm reflecting on it, I don't, I don't have really that either. I don't see the judgement of others at supermarkets and things anymore. Maybe I did when I was early in my parenting. But there might Yeah, there must be a change. Because now that you've said, oh, yeah, I don't really even look around now. It's just when my kids doing something, I know how I'm going to respond. And, and it's, it's me and me being in my body and in my power with that. I don't tend to notice the scowling looks are the the things that I don't know, probably there. But I don't tend to see it either. So that's interesting. Yeah, it's interesting that you've pointed that out, tell us a little bit more about your journey to, you know, into motherhood. And we'll both times, you know, with your stepdaughter, but also with your son, and some of the things that you talked about in the book around trusting our wisdom. And I know around your birth, trusting, you know, how we birth? And would you like to talk a little bit more about that first?

08:02

Absolutely. So for a very long time, I didn't believe that I would be a mother. And that was my identity. I was into my 30s Before I met my now husband and fell in love with his beautiful daughter, Haley. And throughout that journey, I sort of had to sitting down and saying, Look, I need to talk because early in our relationship, I'd said, Look, I'm not looking to have kids, I need you to know that. Because if that's a deal breaker, then we're going to have to have that conversation now not down the line. And then I had to sit him down and say, well, actually, we need to talk. And it's not a bad talk, hopefully, and let him know that I had changed my mind and what my reasoning was for that, and that the hugest part of that was his beautiful little person who was becoming mine, as well. So beautiful. Thank you. Baby step parents is a really interesting, interesting journey. And there's a book in me that's on its way around. That's more so for children, but that I want to have elements there for months. Yeah. And that's it become parents through the initiation of being a step parent because their step parents are painted in a really horrible light a lot of the time. Yeah, from everything from our fairy tales onwards. I remember the first time a little person I was a director of a childcare centre. That's my background before I had worry and kind of concepts came to life. And I was a director of a childcare centre and Haley had spent a period of time coming to the centre, and we're staying primarily with us in Darwin, and it was beautiful. We had a really lovely time. Then she returned to her mom, and she'd been attending and this little person said after she'd gone where is Haley? Where's your little girl? And I suppose she's gone back to her mommy's house doll and she's, she's gone back to her mom and her mom's name is Sam. And he said to me, but you're her mom. I said, Well, I'm just I'm her stepmom, and he said, stepmothers are witches, which I love goodness, because at the age of four, he's already got a picture that stepmothers a witches. And he said to me, but you're not a witch. So how are you stepmom? And it was really difficult for him to comprehend. I know you when and I don't see you like that. But I know what a stepmother isn't. And they're not good. You know, they're not good news. And that really got me thinking, you know, at a really young age, we are, we are training our kids to have beliefs about all kinds of things. And nobody sets out to have a four year old, perceive stepmothers, as well as witches. But it's something that naturally occurs, it's just happening through osmosis because of what our kids are exposed to. And so, as my experience has been, is that most adults, most parents, if you're not a step parent, you can't know what it is to be a sick parent, just just as is the perception that if you're not a birth parent, you can't know what that is, either. And there are elements of that that are true. So there are aspects of parenthood that have fallen and landed more heavily or differently within my body, since I became a birth mother, as opposed to a step mother. But there are aspects of the way I see children and childhood through my lens of a step mother that I couldn't gain, if I had have been a birth mother first. So it's not about one being good, and one being bad, or one being better than another. But quite often step parents aren't seen as parents. So there were a lot of comments that I received, and none of them malicious, but just things that were said, when we were expecting wiry, and when he was born about you know, about me journeying to be a mum that I was going to be a mum, and I was like, I am already a mother, I am not the person who grew this little person, she has her own mother, who will always have that role. But more love for a child cannot be a bad thing.

12:25

And so that was something that really stuck with me was how can we help? How can we help people who are step parents to see themselves as parents? And how can we help the rest of society to value that role and to recognise that just because you didn't birth doesn't mean that you're not a mum, or that your your heart doesn't break the way that a mother's heart breaks. When when you're apart from your child. You know, it doesn't, it's the same as we're expecting our next little person. And we're going through the process of preparing wiry for him becoming a big brother. And it's the exact same feelings and the exact same things to process for me, as it was when we were preparing to welcome wiry. And for that to be a big shift for Haley. It's no different preparing worry for a sibling than it was preparing Haley for one, just because just because she wasn't growing inside of my body doesn't change that. And how can we articulate that? Well, these are the kinds of questions that float around in my brain all of the time. How can we open up a little bit of a conversation around that for people? So that's because some of those comments really hit hard, just like before, you know, some people with unsolicited advice, and I don't get that anymore. But I still feel the sting. If there's a comment that's around, you know, are we going to go from one to two? And it's like, we've already gone from one to two. Yeah, I already know what that's like. And I know what it's like to have to have another have a child who's in a different home and not here all the time. And and the complexity that that raises for her and for him. And we're just adding to that the same as going from two to three. I'm sorry, same as going from one to two. We're going from two to three.

14:18

Yeah, yeah. Yeah. Thank you so much for sharing that because I'm not a step parent. And so I don't have that experience. And I think the more we hear people share their experience it, it broadens our awareness and it opens us up to like, oh, yeah, I know most people are well meaning in their comments and most people are well meaning in in the advice that they give us. All those things that were talked about at the start, but it's just actually it's not just not, it's not how it's received. And so it's just bringing awareness to to that that is helpful and it's why I love having the He's conversations on the podcast because even if people listening aren't step parents, they might have friends that are they might have siblings that are they might, you know, they will know someone that that is a step parent and that this can be helpful to have these conversations. So I think that's a great book that you can bring into the world, a much needed conversation and awareness to that. So I look forward to reading that one too.

15:28

There'll be a, there'll be a small person's book Haley's helping me write that one, she, she had a bit of a skewed vision, once we had published the book of well, okay, so I need to write my now and it'll be done over the weekend. Got a little bit upset when she worked out, it could take a little bit more than a weekend. But part of what she wants to bring to the book that's for children who are navigating to homes, is how to be able to recognise that difficulties, but also see the beauty in those that then that they're not all hard or that it's not all bad, to be able to get that balance, because it can be you know, because she said to me, when she wanted to sit down and do some drawing and some writing, she said, You know, it's really hard to have two homes. I said, Yeah, and she was six at the time. And she said, it will be way easier if we just all live next door, because then I could just go here, come over there. And you know, if while he's asleep, or go hang out with mom, and then we're worried wakes up, you could bring me and I could come back over. And in her mind, that was the best solution that we could have just like two houses next door. And it would make life easier for her. And so being able to, to really see it through a child's lens, like they don't see all the complexity that we see, even this morning, our little guy was putting together some train tracks in my adult brain went to want to go over and help him to like complete it, you know, something, he could go all the way around. And then I had to stop and go hang on a minute. He's not looking at it the way I am, he doesn't see incomplete, he sees that I made this and I can drive my train to here. And it can either go off the track, and then I'll put it back on. Or I'll just drive it back the opposite way along the track that I made. And there's a million times in a day where our brain sees something and wants to jump in and we don't really need to our kids are fine. They've they've not looking at it through our adult lens. And that's the beautiful thing, right? That's what I want to protect for children is how can we minimise the amount of augmentation from their natural innate state that occurs for them on any given day, that's kind of the experiment of raising kids in this house. Really,

17:47

yeah. And I really love that in your book and really love what you've just touched on. Because that's such an important part of, of being with our children. And when we show up to play with them, or when we show up in ways to just be alongside them and connect with them. Often as parents, we bring our perceptions like you said, we bring our ideas, we bring our knowing of how we kind of see the world as adults. And we go oh, okay, you making a train trip? Okay, let's, let's let's connect it up. So you can, you know, zoom around the track. But the skill or the attunement to our child is like, hang on, what's their idea here? Like what, like, how can we meet them here. And, and it's about sitting back and, and watching isn't it and waiting and seeing where they their innate ideas, take them.

18:48

And allowing them wherever possible to be able to have that voice. You know, even as adults, if if you go to a new workplace and you get shut down enough times by your boss, you'll stop raising ideas. And we're adults. So our little people, it doesn't take long of having your ideas shut down for you to not voice them anymore. So our little guy, he will say to you, if you come to come in to something, he will just say mummy, sit down, watch. And he will tell you that he wants you to just sit there near him. And if you got to do something, he says come back. Sit down. Watch. What do you mean? Okay, I'm watching you. What would you like to show me? But not all children will do that some children have had enough times in their life, whether it be in their homes, whether it be when they go to care, whether it be in schools, where that's kind of been squashed already. And it's not that it's gone forever. But if that is an aspect, then we want to look for how we can bring that back out. But yeah, exactly right. Being able to say hang on a minute, I'm just gonna sit and stop and attune to what it is that they need because there are times that they're screaming out Without words or with noise, for us to come closer for us to get involved to be able to build that train track while they sit on our lap. And other days, they don't need that from us. And it's just being able to, you know, I guess work with the tide instead of against it.

20:18

I love that. Do you have any ideas like with your experience in childcare centres of how to help a child to reconnect back to their innate wisdom, or their innate ideas? Where if that has been squashed? Or if a parent has been like, oh, yeah, my child doesn't really bring any ideas anymore. And it's maybe because when I do go and play with them, I've kind of changed the game into what I like to do,

20:46

lovingly testing them on, what is this one? Yes, because that's what was done to us. Yeah, you know, we want to be the best parents we can be. And if you've had enough, people ask you, if your child can tell you colours yet, you might go home and start asking your child, what the colour is of every damn thing that you touch for the rest of the day. We're always communicating to kids, always in our actions in what we're not saying, in the environment in the way we create spaces for children. So even just being able to take a look. So in an early learning setting, you want to be like taking a look at what messages are we sending to these kids through the way this environment is set up? So the same is going to happen in our homes. But where are the Yes, spaces? Yeah. So where is it where these children or this child can freely explore? without worry of that they're going to knock something over that's precious, that they're going to touch something that isn't actually safe for them. So how can we remove hazards, let's not take away all of the risk, we need risk. But let's remove hazards and things that are invisible risks to children. And, and allow them to have the freedom to explore that space. Because if I need to be hovering over my toddler, in order for him to be able to explore a space, pretty soon, he's going to stop exploring it because he's constantly being asked to put that down, don't touch that leave that alone. You know, even even in our pool area, we've just moved to a new home when we've come home to Darwin, and we've got a pool, which is great. You need a pool in Darwin. And, you know, having him explore and navigate that space, he wants to bring his bikes in, he wants to bring all of the things in and saying okay, so these ones are actually gonna stay out. Because when we're near the pool, and talking to him, it's only one He's not two until the new year, but talking to him about the reasons why it's not just that mommy say no biking here, it's at the pool itself. If you fall in there while you're riding a bike, that's going to be a problem. And, and being able to say so there's all these other places that we can ride this bike. And this actually is one of those spots where there's a boundary, he hasn't got a huge amount of knows in his world, an appropriate amount based on you know, the environment than the society that we live in. And being able to create those spaces where children can explore where if I want to take this resource and mix it with that one that it's okay, we we can tend to have too much out for kids, we can tend to have so many toys out that now our mum brains or our educated brains, if it's in an early childhood setting, get frazzled by the amount of mess, amount of things on the floor, then we want it picked up and we want it cleaned up and and we want it gone. Sometimes having less so that they can explore and use all of the things and make all of the decisions about where they use it and how they use it. without us needing to tell them how it's going to be. I think that's a really great place to start. Because creativity and feeling like you have ownership over your space is really important even like for us as well. You know, like going to a hotel is really fun for the first couple of days and then you want to go home because it's not it's not actually your space. You want to go home to where your things are your stuff, your comfort, your beautiful chair where you sit and have a cup of tea and listen to the birds in the morning. It's not quite the same and creating that for our kids making sure they've got those spaces that are just theirs.

24:31

I love that I love having a love yes spaces. And I also love the power of having less things out for our kids because they get overwhelmed by all of the things out and then you know that does they get these might shut down in terms of their creativity or their exploration of something because it's just too overwhelming for them. One of the very first books I read was simplicity parenting, and it was a small little book and it was One of the things was one of the four principals was allowing me to like giving me permission to get rid of all the toys that were broken or noisy or annoyed us and having or lessening, like, we had so much stuff that we gave away and we cleared out. And my kids played more with the things that were left because they could see them. And they knew that those spaces right there were just for playing, that they could explore it. I think that's really powerful things that you're that you're talking about.

25:33

And it can be some of the simplest shifts, you know, when we're disconnected from our kids is when they frustrate us the most. And it's when they're most frustrated by us as well. Like, there are times where, when you've got lots of pressures in life happening, and we all have them, that I look at wiry, or I look at Haley, and I'm like you're sick of me. You're sick of me today. And I have to sit back and self check myself and say, well, where where have I brought joy? Where have I brought fun and connection, and actually have we just been dragged around, in and out of the car to the shopping centre into this place into that place, and unexpected to do all of the adult things. And where have I actually acknowledged that that's a lot for you, and made sure that there's space that's just for you. So I think that's a really important consideration as well, the way we are seen. We often want to be running around and doing all of the things and making sure that, you know, we want to be the perfect mom or the perfect family and it doesn't actually exist, and it only serves to cause more harm than good for all of us. So where is it that we can slow ourselves down? Tune into our kids ask ourselves like, what are they? What are they craving from me? What is it that they really need right now, because whenever you've got a toddler around your feet, and in your mind, you're playing the loop that they're just being really clearly there's an unmet need there. Yes, and probably you've got some unmet needs too. And it's much easier to keep running around doing all the things and saying that you don't have time to sit down with them, then to actually acknowledge that you yourself, could do with a sit down. And that connecting with them, in giving them 10 minutes it might be is actually going to create a more harmonious afternoon instead of you continuing to butt heads and then continuing to be frustrated with you and you running the loop that you can't ever get things done. And that they always underfoot. And it's always like this, and I never, you know, that we've got to be really aware of when we tell ourselves the stories of it's always like Duck Duck Duck, or I never thought that that that that's a really big warning sign for me when I hear those come out of my mouth or play in my head. Hang on. Yes. Really going on here. What's the what's the core underlying issue that we're having, instead of the symptom that I'm trying to say is the problem?

28:14

Yes, oh, my gosh, so much gold in all of what you just said, then, because often the child ends up being blamed, you know, their behaviour, or we end up looking like you said, the symptom is under our feet, and they're complaining and what's wrong with you, and all the things that kind of go through our head. But like you said, if we rewind what the days look like, they haven't had a whole lot of choice or autonomy of like getting in and out of the car and following us around and what that feels like for a one or two year old, or a small child, and the stories that we run our needs. I talk a lot on here on the podcast about looking at our own unmet needs and meeting those, which we'll talk a little bit more about in a minute. I'll ask you about those. And then how that plays out with our kids of like, well, have we connected with them? Have we played with them? Have we met their needs for whatever is going on for them. So there's so much to gold in in what you just talked about? And I wanted to talk about two things. So I don't mind which one we talked about first. But he talked about language in that as well around, even just using that finite language of like, I always it's always like this or I never or those things. But I know you talk about language in your book as well. So I want to touch on language. So should we talk about that first, actually, and then I'll talk about rhythms and sign down and stuff. So with language, yeah, what's your yes, I'm going to talk a little bit about what you say in the book and the languages and how important languages because I know how powerful languages but it's just nice to have these conversations, because there's always like another phrase or some other word that I left behind Yeah,

Shelley Clarke  30:02

I can change that that's really powerful.

30:05

Yeah, the best place to start there is to, to just take notice of the words that you use all the time I find. And sometimes it's easier to pick them out on someone else. So do to choose somebody, and you can go either into the spectrum or anywhere in between. So it's really easy to do with people who annoy you. So if you've got a mother in law that annoys you, you'll know what her language is the words that get under your skin. Or if you've got somebody that you absolutely adore, and they've got some different interesting words, or slang or things they use, and you find yourself bringing it into what you say. And that's, they're really easy places. And then and then once you've done that, it'll be really fun exercise to choose the people that you're annoyed with, and pick apart what they say and how silly it is. But then you've got to look at yourself and go, Okay, what am I, what am I doing, and one that really hit me in the face probably, maybe six or seven years ago was the Be careful one. And you work in early childhood, and you've got other people's kids. And the last thing you want to have to do is ring a mom and tell her that they're cute that her kids been hurt. That's a bad day, that bad situation when you've got to pick up the phone and let someone know that they're precious person in your service. And your watch is hurt. So be careful is really big in early childhood. Because why? Because from that place of I don't want anyone's kid to get hurt. You can hear in most settings, be careful, be careful, be careful 6 billion times. And so then you've got children who are walking around starting to say be careful. But what does it really mean, especially to a child. And we don't tend to do it as much to each other as adults. So if I'm walking along with you, Shelly, and we're going through a beautiful Bush walk down by a creek and there's a waterfall and we're hopping across some rocks, and I'm in front of you, and I step on a rock and it moves. I'm not going to say be careful and most adults wouldn't. They'd say that rock moves. And it's clued you into exactly what the hazard is. There's a hazard here. And it's that that rock moved or that it's slippery. Those rocks are slippery. Yeah, tell other adults what the problem is. But quite often with children. I don't know why. We just tell them to be careful. Of what what do you want me to be careful of? And that's exactly what Haley will say to anyone if they say to her Be careful. She'll say of what? Yeah. And I love it. I think it's fantastic. Because she was bringing it to me as language. And I would say to her, she'd say be careful. So and I'd say of what she said, Well, the rocks move. And I'd say, Okay, so the rocks move. Can you tell me that rocks move, she's like, okay, but you have to be careful on them. I'm like, oh, what will happen, she's like, you might fall I'm like, Ah, I could fall on the wet rocks, or the slippery rocks or the rocks that move. And so pulling that one apart. And and I like to make a game of it. When I find a new piece of dodgy language that I'm using all of the time. It's, you know, basically like a buzzer goes off in my head. The next time I hear myself say or someone else's like a, you made a mistake, pull up stop. What else could you say there and just trying to come up with different variations of things that you could say. And so we don't say be careful to worry. But he's got a little toy, you know, a noisy one. And it says on one of its settings, you can change it. So the words that it uses a different but on one of the settings, it says be careful, it drives me mad. And he started saying the other day, be careful. And I said to him of what he looked at me. I said, What does that even mean? Yeah, what does it mean? He's like, and so now when he hears that if he presses the button, and it says be careful, he says, What mean? Me? You know, he's asking his toy like what to me, like I don't I don't understand what that is. And I think that's beautiful as well. Because if we can have our children start to, to invite adults to give a greater depth of, you know, context around what's going on, then they can be our greatest little people to keep us accountable. And it's not that Be careful that phrase is, you know, going to cause irreparable harm to somebody. But there are more, more effective ways that we can communicate to our kids. And you know, if a child is climbing another example, if a child is climbing on something, and, you know, if we if we say don't fall, they first got to think about what it would be like to fall Yes, I'm up a tree and an adult says to me, don't fall, my brain has to go. So if I was to fall from here, what would happen I'd have to have like, let go of my hands and then I would go down. Whereas if you're seeing a child climbing and maybe they're not paying attention or they're not quite aware or it gets windy and that Right, and you say hold on tight. Directly, immediately they can do that thing. Yeah. So just really picking up on, like, what's the core message of what it is that I'm that I'm saying? And is there something else that I could that I could use here that would be of benefit, because it's just like, be careful, that's just out easily. For us. You know, some, some of the listeners might have self talk that comes up, when they're stressed, we usually go back to our patterns, even if you've invested a lot of time and energy in unpacking your wounds, if you've got self talk somewhere in there, that you're useless or hopeless, or that you can't do anything, right, that will come up when you're stressed. And where did that start? It started when you were really quite small. And so what, what you already knew, is asking people to do is to have a look at what they've got. So they can maybe stop it before it goes to the next generation or the next generation. And there's a lot, there's a lot of information out there, there are a lot of people who are all looking for that same outcome, everybody's looking at it through a slightly different lens, the more we share, the more we can can gain a broader view of the of the challenges that we face. And language is a big part of it, you know, the way we talk to ourselves and to our kids, becomes the way they talk to each other and other people.

36:27

Yeah, absolutely. And then becomes the internal dialogue as well. But I love that because also when we say like, be careful, often there's a panic. And I even know when I was learning to drive with my mom in the front seat, and she would kind of say, be careful. And I like what what like, is imminent danger. There's a panic. And you know, she does it to my dad's do when he's a fully grown adult, you know, in his 60s, and he's like, yeah, when Mum sort of says be careful and grips on. And she's not quite, he's like, I don't know what she's talking about. Like, I've got the steering wheel here. And I remember that learning to drive was like such a shock. Because Because we often are like, be careful. And our panic, it comes out in our voices that we're not giving information to the kids. So they're automatically like freezing and going up, what am I going to be careful about. And it can then train them to have that same sort of, like, frightened kind of response to whatever they were doing, when actually they were just exploring their world. And like you said before, taking healthy risks and, and

37:35

disconnects them from their body. Because is that when you when we say be careful, and they can't, they haven't sensed the problem. But at you, they sense a big problem. They're like, Oh, I can't be trusted. I didn't notice that I didn't, I didn't recognise the danger. And so now instead of exploring and trying to risk assess myself, I'm going to start doing something and then I'm going to look to mum, or dad, or grandma, for if this is okay. And so then you're already at the age of 234 outsourcing the responsibility for your safety to those around you. And so healthy risk taking is helping children to identify the challenges and the problems that are around them, helping them and slowly handing those reins over so that we don't give them you know, the keys to a lethal weapon at 17 and say have fun with that. When we haven't done the building blocks all of the things that come before is it does it does it freaks out your nervous system if someone says be careful, but you haven't recognised the threat. You go did I miss?

38:43

Yeah. And I love the fact that you just highlighted it does disconnect us from our bodies, like the children from their bodies, and they learned not necessarily trust. They're what they're feeling. And they keep looking and I see kids all the time. They're like look constantly looking for that external validation, but also that external like you, you're okay or no, don't do that. And we very early children will disconnect from their innate wisdom, which is a big part of your book. And a big part of what I love talking about is helping kids to stay connected to who they are, and their innate knowing. And so that because they know, kids know what they need, they know what they need to learn. They know how they need to learn it. And often it's asked getting out of the way, isn't it?

39:33

Yeah, it really is. And then being able to assess how big of a problem feels to them is important as well. So for kids who have, who, when I'm working or supporting children who have potentially been a bit disconnected from some things, is that if they are doing something and they and they panic, they're up a tree and they panic that they don't know how to get down. Instead of just lifting them down. It's coming close enough, my first step is I want to sue their nervous system. So however close I need to get to do that. And there are times where I actually need to take that child out of that tree and bring them to my body because that's the only way they'll feel safe. But that's not that's not my go to. That's not what I want to do if I don't need to. Yeah. So we've Haley I've had times with her where, where she's been doing something and being really adventurous. And then something triggers in her and, you know, she's flipped her lid, and she's unable to come back to a place of calm, but it's coming close enough and saying, Okay, so what's happening in your body? My heart is racing. Okay. So why is that? Is your body safe? Are you about to fall or no? Okay, so I've got a hold of your body, you keep holding on to the tree, I've got a hold of you. Do you think you're going to fall? No. Okay, so have we got a big problem or a small problem. And I find that really useful, especially with Hayley, is helping her to to grasp how big of a problem it seems to her. And we've had times where she'll say, it's a big problem. It's a big problem. I say, Okay, what do you need from me? Hold me closer. Okay. Do that thing. Now, how big is the problem? It's getting smaller, okay. And we and we go through, and we do the things until we've got no problem. And she will come up to you now when she you know, she's seven now. So she's got heaps of language and capacity. But even at the age of three, and four, she would come up, and then be at something that was a problem for her. And she'd straightaway tell you how big of a problem it is. And that helps you as an adult to gauge your response as well. Because when she brings your problem tells you it's a really big problem, like, Okay, I need to stop everything else I'm doing give him my full attention. So that we can problem solve this together. And as the problem gets smaller, I can use language with her and say, okay, so that problems gotten smaller, are you happy for me to go back to staring dinner on the stove, or whatever. The other thing is that I'm scanning groceries in the supermarket, because you know, problems happen everywhere. And so then that helps her to recognise that, okay, I've had full focus attention. While it's been a big problem, and now that it's getting smaller, I can manage it on my own. And that's really important for kids, as well as that they can recognise that they have got the capacity to manage things on their own. And that calling out for help, isn't failure, calling out for help is getting help while you need it. And then once you've got it under control, that the big people sit back and let you manage that. They're still close by they're still available, but you get to have the satisfaction of solving your problem.

42:40

I love that so much. And like it's so common for our our innate responses, a parent to want to come in and fix it and to want to, you know, if they're stuck up a tree, yeah, fix it quick. Because we're uncomfortable as the adult were often uncomfortable with our child's discomfort and the things that they're going through or their fear, or if they're stuck up a tree, there's been many times where my reaction has come on, down, I'll get you down. But that's not teaching them anything that's not helping them through those, that situation or those feelings. And so there's been many, many times where I've had to kind of pull myself back and maybe climb up the tree next to them or get closer, like you said, get close enough to be like, Okay, what do you need, and talk them through that, but at the same time, I'm sort of talking myself through that this scenario and go, they're safe. This is okay. Yeah, trusting them trusting them to

43:48

case if it was about to completely fall apart, have I the capacity to catch them? Yeah. When our toddler is being really adventurous, he was really adventurous, really young. And when he was being There's a story in my book, he was being really adventurous with climbing. And I was really happy that my husband was home because my nervous system wasn't in a really great regulated state that particular morning, they'd been lots of broken sleep and all of the things just life and I was really glad that my husband was home because he's like a calm ninja when it comes to this stuff, you know, and he's got cat like reflexes. So I also knew that he was sitting far enough away, that wiry could feel like he was being trusted to do what he was doing. But I also knew that he's quick enough that if he needed to, he would grab him before his head hit the ground. So being aware of that as well like knowing where you're at not biting off more than you can chew, you know, if there's certain playgrounds that if I'm not having a great day, I'm not going to go to because I need a break. I actually need to be able to sit under the tree and and calm my own system down on this given day or in this given moment. So Being being able to recognise like that's part of getting your needs met as well is that we want to give our children everything we can give them, but let's not set ourselves and them up for a disaster. Yeah, by saying yes to things that we really don't have the capacity to support.

45:18

Yeah. Yeah. I love that. I talk a lot about saying yes, when it's a yes for ourselves, and a no when it isn't no for ourselves and knowing what our needs are. We've sort of segues into what I wanted to talk about next was exactly that meeting our needs, but also the slower rhythm of life, and really slowing down to meet the natural rhythms of our life lives and our children's lives and what they need, and how we do that, and how we tune into that. So you want to talk a little bit more about about that?

45:55

Yeah, we, I'd love to, we do that? Well, sometimes, and we do it terribly at other times, just for most people going to be the reality. So really extending compassion to yourself, if you're having a day, a week, a month, where that's not your reality. For me, I've always been a person I was raised in a home where momentum builds momentum. So the faster you get going, the faster you've got to keep going. And everything's a race. And I remember some of the language one of the sayings that my dad had when I was a kid was, if you're not living on the edge, you're taking up too much space. And I really embodied that as part of who I was, you know, that if I wasn't, if I wasn't, you know, right on the knife's edge of burning myself out, then I was taking up too much space. And there's a lot of things you can unpack from that one. It was not even thrown around in in that way. But that's how it landed for me. And so for me, slowing down has been a pretty big journey, I had to kind of get smacked in the face with a whole bunch of health challenges to recognise that slowing down was something that I needed to do and momentum still builds momentum in me, My husband is the most amazing human for helping me come back to slowing down, you know, because he, he will notice that within me and he will do things like he will grab his guitar and just start playing guitar, because he knows that that will slow me down. He'll probably have something like that going on for me after we have this chat. Because he knows when I get talking and get on different tangents and speaking about all of these things that I'm deeply, deeply passionate about, that it fires me right up in one sneaky write up. Yeah, probably going to have strategies this afternoon, that will bring me back, everybody. Brendon, that's my husband's name. In their life, somebody who can recognise when they're getting going too fast and gently and with love, bring that to awareness. But for ourselves, I think for me, it's it's recognising when I have got a toddler under my feet, and I'm running the story that I never, and I always, that tells me I'm going too fast. It tells me that I need to really step it back and like are those things that important? The things that you're running in your to do list. And recognise when your to do list is too big for the amount of time that you've got, you know, if you're trying to go okay, so over the weekend, while I've got hubby home, we're going to do XYZ and we're going to go to Bunnings. And we're going to go to all the places, where's the space for anything for yourselves and for your children within that and being able to say hang on a minute, we've got to push half of this off the list. Just recognising where you

48:50

were you give yourself the permission to sit down in your day, quite often. You know, it's the running around and picking up the house and unstacking the dishwasher and taking the clothes off the line and all of the housekeeping stuff while toddlers are napping. But they've been full on full noise from the moment their feet hit the ground in the morning, you may or may not have a cold coffee still sitting on the bench from them. So in in our home and it's not a hard and fast rule. I don't really do hard and fast rules because you can come on stuck. rigidly close. But a fairly consistent thing for us is that those tasks don't happen at nap time. They happen together as a family and they take longer. Yes, I can get the washing done off the line way quicker without my toddler helping me to unfold everything I've just folded. However, those tasks I can do mostly with him in tow and if not, then I'm going to have a basket of laundry that sits until tomorrow. But the reason it's not a hard and fast rule is that if my my nervous system is frazzled. And I'm having trouble saying yes to great ideas and great things that my little person wants to do. That tells me that I'm overwhelmed. And so then I might have a day where I run around and do all of those things, so that I can calm my own energy and nervous system enough that I can make my kids with a yes, like, what do I want their childhood to be? Like? How do I want them to remember me? Because they're not going to remember the things I said, they're going to remember how I made them feel, you know, we all know that saying, and, and it really is true. Like when you think about your childhood, what were the top five things that were important to your parents, from your perspective, as a child, your perspective might have shifted as an adult, you might now be able to see how lots of the things that they did served you and were important for you to survive even perhaps. But what do you remember? Yeah, and what do you want that to be? What's your legacy? And so just coming back and asking yourself a lot of questions, slowing down. If if you I remember, a great friend of mine, when we were expecting Larry said, okay, so you're pregnant now. So you're gonna want to slow down. I said, Yeah, I'm doing all these things to slow down. And I'm failing, she said, but I know how fast you go. So like your plan of slowing down? I want you to times it by two. Yeah. And then you might almost be slowing down enough. And that really stuck with me because she was right. What I thought in my head was slowing down was still just,

Shelley Clarke  51:31

yeah, still a

51:33

bit too much. So every anybody and everybody who's had a newborn in their house knows what slow looks like when it comes to like all the other tasks of life. You know, the the bedside tables that end up towered with things that every flat surface is covered in every belonging, an item that you own, and your nervous system is frazzled, because there's stuff everywhere, and you're hungry, and you're thirsty. And the house is a mess. Like we've all experienced that if we've if we've had tiny little people in our homes, or even if you haven't, and you've had sickness or all kinds of things going on. So for me, if I'm not if it's not in that level of disarray, like we're doing good. Like, every, everything's good if we're not at that level of where we've got a tiny, tiny person, and we're trying to establish breastfeeding, and all of the challenges and all of the things and regardless of how your journey goes, every person has challenges along that that journey. If we're functioning better than that, and we're able to stay connected better that they're not, and our nutrition is better than that. We're winning at life. Yeah. Yeah. So yeah, I just think we've got to give ourselves a little bit more permission to drop the pressure on ourselves. No one else is putting the pressure on us most of the time, it's actually coming from within. So working out where that comes from, why it's there. And what what do I actually need? What do I actually need right now? Is it that I need to clear out the clutter in this home and I'll feel better? Is it you know, that I need to go to the supermarket and pack my, my pantry in my fridge with really good food that I can grab easily, so that I'm going to feel well nourished, like what is it that I need today? And that's my one thing. I'm not going to try to change the world. I'm going to try to do one thing today, that steps me towards feeling like I'm doing okay.

53:42

Yeah, I love that. And you're right, like it sometimes just is meeting that one thing and what is the like, as I can have a list a to do list that's really long, because it was always really long. And I've had this same sort of journey with slowing down and my slowing down from 10 years ago when I was first and mum was still running a volleyball club and working and running a business and I was like, that wasn't slowing down. Now it's a whole nother whole nother level of slowing down. And I've probably even just the other day, I was like, This is too fast. We need to slow down again. Like life's you know, just gets easier or feels faster again. And I was like right I want to I want this to be even slower. How can I slow down again on another level? And it is it's about sometimes when my to do list is so long. I go hang on what is what's the one thing that actually is the thing that I need to get done today or that I need? Like one thing and I do that and then the rest of the list of my art I don't need to do any of those things today. Because you've met though you've met the need that one need you like ah okay and then I feel like I can stop spinning.

55:02

Yeah. Yeah, I love it. Because it builds momentum, the quicker you get going, the quicker you feel like you have to keep going. And it's a, it's a dangerous place to find yourself. You know, if you're finding it, if you sit down and grab yourself a cup of tea, or whatever it is, and you sit yourself down, and straightaway, you're you want to lift your bum back off that chair and go and run and do the next things. It's probably an indication that you probably they should back down on a chair, and have that covered.

55:34

Yep. Yeah. And I certainly know that feeling of spinning where I'm like, sit down and go sit down, what was I doing? Oh, no, hang on up again, sit down and go, Oh, hang on, I'm going to read my book and open it up again. And so that is often when I will sometimes even just lay flat on the floor is a good one for me, like just laying down on the floor, like, you know, middle of the lounge room, and wait until I can feel my body, like wait until I can actually feel my heart rate slowing down. And it might be even literally as I'm like kind of getting frustrated with the kids or, you know, I'll just lay on the kitchen floor or lounge room floor and wait until I feel myself come back into my body and things slow down. And then I'm like, okay, by that stage, most of the time I have I've had a kid jump on me. And then there's a bit of laughter. And then we've reconnected and then everyone is back in rhythm again. And it's Yeah, shifts the energy. So certainly, you know, having our things that we go to, to slow the pace down is so important for our families and our kids.

56:46

Yeah. It's just having a toolkit, isn't it and helping our helping our children. You know, from a really early age, like the heart rate is a really great one from a really early age, we can help children to recognise what their heart is doing. So when Haley would you know there's a story in my book about hermit crabs, where she had a total major meltdown? You know, like, literally is your foot cut off level of screaming? What have you stood on in this water? Over hermit crab touching her phone. But her response, even though it was over this tiny hermit crab, she was in no imminent danger, all of the things that your adult brain knows, to her. This was the biggest, most scary thing that's ever happened to her. And her body's response was the same as if she was being chased by a crocodile that's going to eat her. Yep. And so helping her to recognise like, feel your heart like, what is your heart doing. And that was a really great one for her was to take those moments where, where she would either be in hysterics, or even if she was just running really hard and playing really hard. And you know, you know what, three and four year olds are like they're running really hard, and they need to stop and have a drink of water. But they're just the momentum is built the momentum and they have to keep going and helping her to just clue into what's your heart doing? Can you hold your hand on your chest long enough until you feel it slow down? On it slowing down that jump on the trampoline again and see what happens, ramping it back up and helping her to play with that energy that she actually, I'm in control of what my heart does. If it's going really fast, I can do things to slow it down. If it's going slowly, I can go run three laps of the backyard and then feel it and see how fast it is. And, and that was really powerful for her because then she started to go, Oh, I get to choose here. I do get to choose. And that's a really important thing. I don't know what age I was when I worked out that I actually could make decisions to control how my body felt.

58:52

Most adults still don't know that.

58:53

Yeah. And there are days where once you are too frazzled, you don't know what even if you've learned it, even if you've cultivated it and embodied it and all of the things.

59:03

That's when we need a Brendan. Yeah, everybody needs a broom.

59:07

And you know, we should maybe we should we should make an app that there's got to be a solution. Yeah,

59:13

that's what we need. We need those days where we've got someone else to help bring us back down. But having the awareness for the children is so powerful too.

59:24

And, and for me, like, I'm way more equipped to do things that keep me calm if there's a little person around because it gives me an external motivator, and I shouldn't need it. But children are a great motivator for me when I want to. When I see my children or another person's child struggling and dancing with something that's really tough for them. It makes me step up my game in coming up with creative ways of helping them and every time I would come up with a weird game to play with a child It helps me I've now got that in my own toolkit. Yeah. So another little when I talk about different connection games and different things within you already knew and one that I have, with Haley, that was one of those random silly little games that turned up was a game called Goodnight little baby and was really fired up, she was really amped up one night after we gave her a bath. And at that point in time, she was about two and a half. And it's a big change to go from mommy's house to spending time with daddy, and so and so she was all fired up. And her nervous system was a little bit scattered and all over the place. And getting to sleep didn't look like it was going to be a thing this particular night. And so we given her a bath. And then as I was drying her, I started rocking her and singing Good night, little baby, but in a really like fast and forceful kind of way, which doesn't matter. Song, you know, normally it's very slow with melody and rhythmic. And it wasn't it was fast, it was furious, and she was cracking up. Yeah. I went up and I matched her energy here, instead of trying to tell children Calm down, calm down, it doesn't work. Sometimes we've just got to meet them where they are, and just go really wild. And I did that, but with a song that didn't match. And so then then slowly started to slow that down. And we did that. And the next day she asked for after she got out of the bar. She said Good night, little baby. And I said okay, and I went to start really fast. And she was like no, slowly said, okay, so then we rocked really slowly. And it's still a game that we play, it was pretty hard when I was about to, you know, a few days off having worry, it was pretty tricky to play Good night, little baby and rock her in my arms, like a baby when she was actually five and a half. But that's a beautiful game that she really loves to play because she gets to be in control of how fast we do things and what's going on. And, like it's not a game that you made up and sat down one day and said, I'm gonna come up with a connection game that I can play with this child that is power reversal, and provides her with the opportunity to X, Y and Zed. Like when you do something with your child, and it creates hysteria like laughter, and joy. Just follow it doesn't matter what the silly little game is. Play it often. Yeah. And let them lead whatever the game is why he said to me the other day, we were playing games around being a baby and saying where were and things like that. And he pointed to something and said air. And I said where? And then he said air and I said where. And now he would come up to you in the shopping centre or anywhere and just say air and you have to pretend to be a baby and say when? Yeah, it's a ridiculous game. And when I explained it to my husband, he was like, when do you start? And I'm like, I don't even really know. But it's a thing that you do. And if he says no, to you, you've just got to say where?

1:02:57

Yeah, yep, so good. I love play I love talks a lot about play on here. I love like the power of play with children when we show up and connect. And when we use laughter. Like you can't make these get, like you said, you can't sit down and plan to make these games, you've just got to meet the child in front of you. And they sometimes spontaneously, most of the time, they spontaneously emerge out of what you've done. And then they giggle and you do it again. And then they giggle and like they asked for that same game over and over again, with varying differences, depending on what they need each night. And this is why it's so powerful to show up for our kids in this way. And I love hearing other people's games, because then you're like, oh, that might be one that you can kind of like, adapt or try or bring into, you know, because I ended up playing the same games with my kids. And sometimes they can they just, it's nice to have some refreshing ones.

1:03:56

Different things to do. Yeah, and asking your kids if they've got language like asking them what they loved about their day. I remember having a day where we'd gone to, we'd gone to a zoo, with Haley and we've done all kinds of things. I think we'd even you know, we've gone and got fish and chips at the beach and all of the stuff. And I asked her at the end of the day, like what was great about your day to day, she was like bike riding, bike riding, but she just learned how to ride without a training wheels. So the best part of her day in my brain, I was like she's going to be talking to me about all the animals we saw. It's gonna be fantastic. We're gonna have this great connected conversation and memories of our day. She has a bike riding and I was like, Thank you. Thank you for reminding me that these are the things that are important and that asking you is actually really important because me sitting here and and saying that the end of the day. Oh, you know, pat on the back. Good job. I've done a good job today, which is another thing that I don't like. What's that mean? But like patting yourself on the back that you've achieved because you've had a really fun day with your kid like, ask them what was fun about their day what they void? What was really special for them. Because they can tell you when it gives you a it can help to clue you into what will be most important for them moving forward. Like if she wakes up. And she's, you know, not feeling herself or she's just having a bit of a day. Maybe we should go for a bike ride. Would you like to go for a bike ride today? Yeah, it helps to orient us to the things that are most important for her. And if she says she doesn't want to do Lego, then she's really having a crap day because like Lego is life for Haley at this point in time. So if you offer to sit and do Lego with her, or, you know, ask her how are Legos going? And she kind of brushes it off? Yeah, there's something sitting there that she needs to be able to talk about or get off her chest or move her body to, to integrate because if Lego is not high on her agenda, there's

1:06:02

there's a prom happening. There's something going on. Yeah. And for a lot of adults,

1:06:06

like you say that they're like, really, that's really strange. Like how can that be a thing. But every every child is different. And getting to really deeply understand the little people in front of you. Like that's what we're here for. That's our role as parents and as adults in the lives of little people is to, to recognise their unique gifts to recognise what's important to them. And to to let them run with that, you know, she doesn't want to build the Lego things, the way that the book tells her to build them. There's no point buying her a Lego set that builds this specific particular thing she doesn't want to build that she wants to create. She wants to play out her world through Lego. So just go and buy a big bulk box, instead of the Disney branded ones that are 300 times the price anyway, for the number of bricks you get, but not for other kids. They wouldn't want the box of bricks that are just random because they want to be able to build. Yeah, create this specific thing. And they've got the outcome in mind where she says on the phone the other night, she said I'm trying to work out how to do a bunk bed, but I like the pieces I have. I can't do a bunk bed. It's not big enough. Yeah, I don't want to make a tiny bunk bed. It's not for babies. I need a bigger bunk bed. And I was like, okay, so what like length pieces do you need for that? And she was like, none of the pieces I have a long enough. And I was like, is that because all your stuffs built? She was like, Well, yeah, but it was a real problem for her. Yeah. And instead of just brushing that to the side and being like all pull something apart, or, you know, just saying, so how can we find a solution for that? And she said, she went and got another piece of something that wasn't legal and said, Well, I could use this when I and I said, Why are you asking me? Yeah, you can use whatever you want. You can use a book in your Lego to make your bank bank really if you want to, like, what are the rules? What are the rules?

1:08:09

Yeah, whatever you want. Yeah. And it's, it is so powerful to empower our kids to solve their problems, but also to come up with their own solutions to things I think like we said earlier, we can easily jump in, and we can easily brush things aside and say, Oh, don't worry about it, well, we'll just buy some next time, or it's not no big deal. Like just just just make something else dismantle that. But we don't realise that is, shall we say that we are sending the message to our kids that what you're interested in right now, it doesn't matter really, to me, or it's not important, or it's not a big enough issue or they glean, they're not important, or my ideas don't matter, or I'm not creative, like we they, you know, form these beliefs that aren't necessarily true from the ways that we interact. So it's just so powerful. Like you said, language attunement, playing, connecting, these things are so powerful for the way how our children feel in the world. I think it's yeah, it's really important.

1:09:17

Yeah, it's super important. I only recently had a conversation with Haley where she had a self image of herself in one particular way. And I said to her, I explained to her something that I had come to pick up and believe about myself from very young from when I was a child. And she said, Well, no, you're not that. And I said, Well, I know, thank you. But I didn't know that until not that many years ago. I believed it about myself for a very long time. And I said, and did you know that sometimes we will believe things about ourselves that aren't actually true? Sometimes our minds will tell us something is true when it's not. She said, really? And I said, Yeah, and we can change what we believe Even she said, you can change it. Yeah, wow, you have complete power to change what you believe about yourself, if you believe that you're no good at something, you can change that you can say, well, actually, that's just not that important to me, or I haven't practised it that much. And if I want to get good at it, or feel like I'm good at it, I could practice more, or I could find out about it or research it, or there's lots of things that you could do find somebody who really loves it to talk to, because then they're going to help you find out more about it. And she was absolutely blown away that what I believe doesn't always have to be. And it's not always true. And I thought, this is the best thing that I can think of that you could get kids to understand at the age of seven adults are working this out or not. And I thought, how can I help more kids to understand that the things they believe to be true, sometimes a complete lies, complete garbage?

1:10:59

Not may not true? Yep, yeah. Made up. Yep. So true. Like, how many adults I work a lot with adults around, you know, the way we show up for our kids and working through our own stuff. There are many that believe that they aren't smart, or that they aren't creative, or even myself, and I believe I'm not musical, because I wasn't ever great at music as a kid or believe that I can't draw because it got marked when I was a kid at school. And it wasn't, you know, deemed the, you know, I didn't shadow the right way or whatever it was. But then I had this leaf for a very long time that I wasn't creative, or I wasn't artistic. And so there's so many things that aren't actually true.

Shelley Clarke  1:11:50

Not true. They're not true.

1:11:52

I always thought I couldn't throw and catch. And look, I'm not the best at throwing and catching, you probably don't want me on your netball team. But when I let go of the belief that I can't throw or catch, I miraculously managed to start catching things that people lobbed at me much more effectively, because instead of as somebody would go to throw something, or pass me something, instead of freezing and panicking going, oh my god, I'm going to drop that. I just would look at them, and watch them throw the thing. And my hand would go out and I would catch the thing. And even my husband says now, you're so much better at catching and throwing. And I'm like, Yeah, because I stopped believing I was rubbish at it. Yeah. And there are so many things in our lives where that will happen. So if you've got that inner dialogue, that you you know, you're not a mum who can play with your kids, I don't know how to play like, I'm not good at just playing in the backyard with my kids, just go in the backyard. And don't do anything else. Go and lay on the grass or go and sit on a chair. And don't take your phone. And don't look at the washing line that needs you to get the clothes off. Just go and sit with your children wherever they are. And follow their lead when they come and hand you the ice ice cream and tell you that it's whatever its flavour is lick it and have a funny face and hand it back and take notice of what what they enjoy in those moments. And in that and, and you will grow your capacity for because anything we feel awkward about we just avoid. Yeah, don't think that your musical or artistic you're not going to go and do something musical or artistic based? Yeah,

1:13:29

yeah. Which I have worked hard to change. Like I've actually sought out experiences where I've challenged those beliefs, done a art class and done a some painting lessons and started clay building and pottery classes. Classes best. I love it. And I'm like, actually I am create like it's so it's challenging these beliefs. And I think you're right, being able to empower our children at the age of seven to challenge their thoughts and what they believe. And going actually, we have the power to choose something different is it's you know, a quick it's having arming our next generation with the power that they you know, they get to choose what they believe.

1:14:15

And they've they're, we're raising them to encounter problems that we can't even fathom yet. Yeah, we've got a generation of kids who were going to hand a planet, not in a very good state. And they're going to have to come up with really creative solutions to overcome problems that have been caused by all of the people that came before them. Yeah. So the way that we've always raised children to sit still and to listen and that adults impart knowledge is not going to be the way that we raise children through that we've got to, to allow them to keep their sense of self intact so that they they believe that they have the capacity to do it because while ever you didn't believe that you're at The stick, you weren't going to do anything that required a level of artistic mastery. But once you can change that, and I didn't think I was artistic either. I'm very particular. So I tend to do myself out of those things very quickly, because I'm not perfect at it. And I see other people doing it better, which was better anyway,

1:15:20

all these things. Yeah, yeah. And so like, when

1:15:23

I went and did pottery classes, I really wanted it, I needed it to be extra smooth and extra good. And even the person who was you know, supporting us on that journey was like, you're very particular. And I was like, here, that's exactly the feedback I needed to hear. And in that particular moment, as I was making that thing, I had to say, Do I want to be particular about it? Or not? And yes, with this particular thing I'm doing I'm going to put in the effort to try to make it exactly the way that I wanted. But okay, I got to take that feedback and apply it to other areas and say, Do I need to be as particular in some of these other things? Yeah, yeah. Danny's done does it have to be my picture of perfect and I and I ran into that, again, when I was releasing my book. So my book was released earlier this year in 2022. And, in the lead up to that, when I was going through the publishing process, I had this great idea. And, and I've long held a dream of having my own podcast, and it will happen one day. But we have been the pockets of time with a toddler that hasn't had any carry outside of the home. And they haven't been. And so that got put to the side. Because at first I was going to do this big, I was going to do a season of the podcast where I was going to interview people like you, Shelley, and talk about diff to different people about different aspects of the book. And each chapter would have a different person. And that's their expertise. And I was going to bring it all together and have these big bars and build up, you know, in the lead up to releasing a book. And then I had to go, I've got to tell I've got a child who's just turned one, have no carry outside of the home, my husband working huge hours, and I am here. And I want to be here and present with my child and not pushing him to the side so that I can do these other things. And I had to revisit what my picture of perfection for releasing my book was. And there are a million times that I had to adjust my expectations of how big and shiny and exciting it was going to be. Yeah. And I may get that opportunity in the future with a future book, too, to have all of the bells and whistles and trimmings. But for me getting that out there so that it is available, and so that people can stumble upon it. And so that it can be found was the most important thing instead of holding it back. Yeah. And could get it done in that one right way. Yeah, there's a lot of different ways to get something done. And we've got to, we've got to be willing to adjust.

1:17:56

Yeah, absolutely. And I love that we can easily hold back our work in the world and easily hold back what we're here to share and our purpose. Because it's not how we pictured it to be that perfect kind of way. And I've had a similar thing this year with, you know, launching the podcast, but a lot of the this year I was like, right, I'm just getting it out there and just putting it out and might not be exactly how you want it to be. But that's the process of starting and getting it out and into the world. And then the next one, you refine it and you find out and you refine it. But it is about just doing it often, isn't it getting it out there?

1:18:37

Absolutely. And what better lesson for our kids anyway. Yeah. Because if we have to be perfect before we start anything, mostly we're not going to start

1:18:46

Yep, exactly. Yep,

1:18:48

absolutely the right time to have your first baby. Yeah, doesn't exist. Like that's why everybody renovates a house, or does some ridiculous thing moves across the country. Like while they're six months pregnant. Like, I don't really think I know anyone who didn't have some ridiculous project that happened right in the middle of their first pregnancy because that is life. Yeah, that is that is what we're here to do. We're here to explore and expand and take notice of what's in front of us and let it impact our lives. Like that's what our children are here to do. They're here to they're here to help us grow into better versions of ourselves. I

1:19:25

love that so much. Thank you so much for chatting today. Can you tell us where we can find you connect with you find your book, all the things? Yeah, where can we where can we connect with you?

1:19:40

Fabulous. Absolutely. So you will find me in the world of social media on Instagram and Facebook at Zoe, dot hack dot child activist I believe it is just look I'm sorry hack and child activist and you'll find me and wrote my book is called you already knew and you can find that one. anywhere that you ordinarily get your books, so you can get that directly through my website, which is Hakuna concepts.com. Or if you look up my name and you already knew you'll find that as well. Yeah, all online retailers, so your, your booktopia, your Amazon, all of those, any bookshop you can go in, and if they don't stock it, they have access to it and can order a copy. And on my website, there is also a list of stockists for some cases that may be hopefully local to you. Yeah.

1:20:31

Awesome. Thank you so much. And thank you so much for the chat today. It's been amazing. I really enjoyed reading your book. It's very similar to how I see children. So I was reading it with lots of yeses and nodding and was like, Yes, I love that story. And thank you for sharing your wisdom in the world and for coming on and chatting today.

1:20:53

They've been fantastic to have a yarn with you today, Shelley. Thank you.

1:20:56

Thanks so much. Bye for now.

Shelley Clarke  1:20:58

Thank you for listening. This episode was brought to you by 21 days of play my self-paced course to help bring more play into your every day. Thank you so much for listening. I would love to know your thoughts and feelings and to continue the conversation. You can connect with me on Instagram at Facebook @_Shelleyclarke_  If you'd like to keep in the loop for all my resources and offerings as they happen, you can join my mailing list at www.shelleyclarke.com Thank you for all you're doing. Your parenting is important and powerful. Have a lovely day. Bye for now.