Separation and co-parenting using Aware Parenting with Nic Wilson

In this episode Shelley chats with Founder of Peaceful Parenting, Nic Wilson. As an Aware Parenting and The Marion Method mentor, Nic shares her work through amazing and informative social media posts, paid programmes and One to One parenting support. Listen as she shares with us how to navigate co-parenting and separation using Aware Parenting. 

In this episode you'll learn about:
- how to let go of the grief and guilt after separating from your child's other parent
-  Nic’s journey with attachment play and how it was a total game-changer 
- why making friends with all feelings should be a prerequisite course for all new parents
- what catch up crying is and why it is important to hold your child through it
- why the key to peaceful parenting is actually creating spaciousness in yourself through self-care... and so much more!

 
If you are wanting to let go of the should's and supposed-to's and create a great co-parenting relationship after separation, then this is the podcast episode for you!

21 days of play course

Continue the conversation with Shelley here:
https://www.facebook.com/shelleyclarkemindbodyparenting
https://www.instagram.com/_shelleyclarke_/

Find Nic Wilson here:
https://www.instagram.com/peacefulparenting/
Free e-book - Attachment Play

This podcast is produced by Nikki O'Brien from Quintessential Being

Transcript

Shelley Clarke  00:00

I wish to acknowledge the traditional custodians of the lands I live on. I pay my respects to the Kaurna people elders past and present, and honour their ongoing traditions. Welcome to the mind body parenting podcast. I'm your host, Shelley Clarke. Here I talk about all things mind and body and how this relates to ourselves and our parenting. I envision a world where children are seen and heard, and parents feel supported and less alone. Join me here in the power of story, expert knowledge and lived experiences. Let's dive in. Today's episode is brought to you by kids in Adelaide. All the best events, activities, places to visit and things to do with your kids in Adelaide and around South Australia. Visit www.kidsinadelaide.com.au. Hello, and welcome back to the mind body parenting podcast. I'm your host Shelley Clarke. And today I have the pleasure of chatting with Nic Wilson. Nic is an Aware parenting instructor and a Marion Method mentor and a mother to a beautiful daughter. She fell in love with Aware parenting after it helped her move from a very difficult place in her life several years ago, and now wants to share it with the world. She is the founder of peaceful parenting. And she now shares her work through amazing informative social media posts and programmes and One to One parenting support. Welcome, Nic. 

Hey, Shelley, how are you? 

I'm good. It's so lovely to have you on here today and to chat. Shall we start with a little bit more about your story and what you do now and how you got to be doing what you do in the world? 

01:50

Sure.So yes, as you said, I did come to Aware parenting quite a few years ago now. So about six years ago, my daughter just turned nine. So yeah, I was back in the day. I would say that I was a little bit late coming to Aware parenting but put all those sticks down. Yes. And we can talk a little bit more about sticks in a little while actually because that that is something that is really important is with this work. Yes, So I felt very guilty for a very long time. When I first started learning about Aware parenting it was this real, bittersweet love for it because I loved what I was learning. I really resonated with everything. And yet there was this oh my god, I haven't been doing that. Oh my God, I didn't do that either. Oh my god, I've completely ruined her. You know, I've devastated both of us for the rest of our life. So there was a real grieving period between realising what I had been doing and then coming to Aware parenting. So yes, back when I first fell pregnant, it was a very, very traumatic pregnancy. I was always already in quite a turbulent relationship. So it wasn't ideal circumstances. I then sort of vomited for the full nine months till she came out breach unwanted C section and sent home after two and a half days so I couldn't walk. I couldn't you know, there's very very traumatic time, very lonely time. And she just cried all the time. She cried from dawn till dusk without stopping, I swear she just never took time for breaths. She just cried and cried and cried all day all night. So I guess part of the main reason why I started to look at something else was just the lack of sleep. So yeah, literally went through every sleep nurse possible. We went to the night clinic to try and learn how to sleep and we basically got kicked out of there with a buy a $600 hammock and move on. None of it was working. And I was just struggling I was an absolute shell of a human I was very alone physically and emotionally a lot of the time it was just her and I and yeah many many times I just day after day, it just kept telling us I can't do this anymore. I I just can't do this anymore. So it was really in that darkest of dark year it was around the three and a half year mark coming up to Christmas. Yes, I was a walking zombie walking around just not enjoying I didn't enjoy the pregnancy didn't didn't enjoy the birth didn't enjoy these first few years. And I was just feeling really sad about that because I've always wanted kids and this was just such a upsetting time for me. And coming up to Christmas. My then sister-in-law gave me a course of Marion's called love being a woman and never heard of Marion Rose before it was you know, my first introduction to Marion and I started listening to it in the night, when you're awake doing nothing else but walking around the room with a baby crying. And Marion's voice was just like this warm hug that came in in the middle of the night. And for the first time in a long time. I just didn't feel alone and it was just a voice on a computer. You know, that was just life changing. And the first three chapters of that are about self-care and filling your own cup and I'm like what people actually do this? Yeah, you don't have time to do this to children. This is insane. Yeah, as I got further into it, I She mentioned a few things you know about Aware parenting and I was like, Oh, who is this woman? And so I went to her website, scoured the website, found a bunch of courses and started doing the making friends with children's feelings course. if anybody has not done it, it should be like a prerequisite in hospitals.

Shelley Clarke  05:17

You should, understanding feelings, making friends with all of our feelings. I agree that information alone is a game changer and would be for so many parents, I think. Yeah,

05:29

just the not like not stopping the crying, even just changing that small but very significant cultural belief that we have to stop crying. Yeah. And that to every parent who is walking out of the hospital, because that thing, that course just revolutionised my world. So of course, then I'm like, Okay, so now I guess that I listen to feelings. But I still had no capacity. So it was Yeah, I had to sort of do a lot of the course first and really get some comfort, some self time back and some spaciousness. And then I started listening to feelings. And it was a case of maybe three and a half months of just catch-up crying, and you're going through the ebbs and flows of this doesn't work. This is wonderful. This doesn't work. This is wonderful. And I remember after three and a half months was the first time I put her down, this is crying, crying, crying, crying, put her down for a night's sleep, and she slept for five hours. Wow. It's like, Oh, my God, I checked her 40,000 times I thought she was dead. I thought she wasn't breathing. Like what's going on here. And she literally woke up. Once I listened to some more feelings. She fell back asleep. And she slept til 7am. And I couldn't sleep the entire night because I was just like, oh my god, this stuff is magic. Yeah. So then, of course, it was just a deep dive into everything that Marian had to offer. Just really trying to take it all in. I bought all the latest books. And yeah, it just started moving my way through it and trying to implement the stuff as best as possible. Attachment play was huge for us, because she was the perfect age for really engaging in a lot of plays. I played, my absolute go to instead of power over, which was a huge, huge game changer as well. And then yeah, fast forward to 2020. I love that so much. I just wanted to share it with everyone that would listen. So I became an instructor. And yes, that peaceful parenting and have been sharing about it ever since. So.

Shelley Clarke  07:17

And I really, really love Well, I love that story, and your journey with it. And I've got a couple of things that I'd love to ask him about that as well. But I wanted to say your posts on social media are always so informative. And so for anyone listening, you know, I highly recommend going and checking Nic's Instagram account because you explain Aware parenting so well. And yeah, I even find that like, Oh, that's so good. That's so great. Even though I know I'm like, Oh, I've sent people to go and have a read of it because you explain things so well. So yes, a couple of things you mentioned in your journey that I wanted to talk about in that first, when you started to listen to feelings, and that took about three months with that backlog, do want to talk a little bit more about what that might look like for parents and that the journey around this doesn't work. This isn't working because I know some of the parents that I work with will come back to me go. This isn't working. Yeah. And what what was your experience with that?

08:21

I guess it was there was also there was me saying it wasn't working. There was a whole bunch of people in my area going this isn't working, Nicole, this isn't working, you need to do something different. But I knew I knew if I just you know stuck to it and kept doing it. And I had read in the AWARE baby about the catch-up crying. So that was one thing that if I hadn't read that, and I hadn't known about it, because I had suppressed feelings for so long. I was you know, she didn't want to hear I was shoving the dummy in. I was anything to stop her crying because it was just driving me bonkers. Like I couldn't how she was screaming it was just a constant array of things. So yes, I was doing absolutely everything. And so I was really committed when firstly, I knew that I had come to it, you know, later than most people if you'd been doing it when you're pregnant or, or when they were born. I only started it when my son was about three and a half. Yeah, so I think it is. Yeah, it's definitely different. I mean, I have people who didn't, you know, read all the books in pregnancy. And then he just started going was definitely not our case. But yeah, it's it's, I guess I already had that in my head. I was prepared that was there was going to be more crying before. So I mentally prepared myself. This isn't an overnight thing. I quite often tell people Aware parenting is the long game. I'm your start, you could start it, you know, four months pregnant four months of age, four years, 14 years. It's, you know, about spending more time giving more space. So it's not an overnight, take the pill and everything's great. So I prepared myself mentally for that. And I upped hugely my self care. Yeah, so I really made sure I had lots of spaciousness that I didn't have before, I wasn't asking for help. I had a lot of conditioning around asking for help that I should know how to do this. I've always wanted to be a parent, how can this be happening? You know, lots of ways, you know why she's still crying Im such a terrible mother. So a lot of stuff like that you should know how to you shouldn't how to breastfeed you, you should know how to keep your daughter from crying, etc, etc. So I had to do a lot of inner work during those three months, I was journaling a lot, I was journaling all my thoughts down, and then you know, thinking, okay, so I don't want to talk myself out anymore. What's another story? You know, what am I going to start telling myself that I'm working on it, you know, these things take time, she's crying, because she needs me, you know, this is not here just to annoy me. So there was a lot of changing those thoughts that were coming up. And I just asked for help. I was just handing her over to my mom, or my dad or to friends and just going I need an hour, I just need an hour to recoup, which often for years I hadn't been doing. So I was sharing with her crying, I was eating with her crying, I was just nothing, no help. That definitely help changing the inner inner world. And just accepting that it will take a little bit of time for that. And also just really listening to my what I would now call willingness around when I wasn't willing to listen. And when I had enough, not forcing myself by going, you know, we have to hurry this up. So I have to keep listening to her. And if I keep listening more than she'll get better, quicker, like none of that. It was like if I'd reached my, my level, I'm done. That's all I can do. Now. I'm going to feed you, I'm going to do whatever, just stop it.

Shelley Clarke  11:34

Yeah, yes. Yeah. And they're really great points. And also, for those listening, even though she was crying in the early years, it was like constant crying. But that's different. This is different when we are talking about listening to her feelings. And because often when we have a newborn baby, and they're and we're in that state of alarm ourselves often and survival ourselves, and we're often trying to fix or stop or, you know, do everything possible to get our baby to stop crying, but they're still crying. And it's like this vicious cycle, that difference that you're talking about, and that we, you know, that we the philosophy change, I suppose with the way accounting is that we are holding space for their feelings. And so even though she was crying earlier, there wasn't the same presence with that healing. Yeah.

12:32

And that's definitely the difference in that. I was I didn't want to be here. Energetically, she could definitely feel I don't want to be here. I don't want any more. I don't want this. I don't want this. I don't want this. That was that was this was like, I'm here. I'm not leaving. I love you. And listening. Yeah, I'm going anywhere. You know, so it was it's, I just got goosebumps all over. It's definitely like the difference is your where's your energy sitting when you're doing that. And that's why listening to your spaciousness is so important. Because if you don't have a full Yes, for being in that position, yeah, feel it, and the healing won't be occurring anyway.

Shelley Clarke  13:09

Yes. And that that is a really big point to differentiate, because sometimes parents will say, my, my child's crying for like three hours, and I'm like, well, and then you know, it's not changing. And sometimes, you know, they might have a lot of tears, but often, somewhere in there, we might have checked out and we might not be really, really present with the listening. So I would always say to a parent, like, you want to be present and, and holding space for them so that they know you're right there with them. That's when the healing tears, you know, are happening, and they're offloading all of their feelings. And then they come back into balance afterwards. And so yeah, I really love that point of, that's what changed for you. And that three months, which is incredible effort from you to really hold that space for that time. Because once that backlog, when I talk about emptying the backpack of feelings that they have that they're carrying around, once that backlog has been empty, then it's just their day to day kind of all life events that come up, but you're not, it's not a constant barrage.

14:18

And that's, and that's so true. That's what it's been like ever since it's just we've done, and I still was doing so much listening. So even though that that three month period was intense, it went on until she was about maybe five and a half. So it was another year of quite a lot of feelings. And it was only really when she was about five, five and a half when she actually started school. And mind you she was always a very happy kid. This was the she cried a lot. But actually when she wasn't crying, she was actually in quite a good mood. So she had no problem with separation. So when she saw that school, there was no tears or anything. And then again, it was just like the housekeeping. You know when when they got home like just you know the transition from home but as you said it was never it's never been this, weeks and weeks and weeks subprime ever again.

Shelley Clarke  15:01

Yeah, yeah. Which is really helpful for parents to know that it does shift. But it takes a while, you know, and I think, which is what we wanted to talk about today, because we can move into, you know why she might have had a lot of feelings as well, because that was a really turbulent, turbulent time for you and life in general. And I wanted to chat with you today, specifically around how we navigate a web parenting with separating, and co parenting. And you know, when our children go between houses, because I think you, you know, you've lived this, you know, experience, you've got that lived experience of this. And so helpful for others doing the same. So do you want to talk a little bit more about your experience? And, you know, wisdom that you might have around? All of that? Yes, well, very

15:59

long term learned wisdom. It's wisdom now, but it definitely wasn't at the time. It wasn't really that yeah, so yes, the reason why it was quite turbulent during that time, so have father and I were not together in the beginning. And then we came back together, and we were trying to make it work. And it was still quite turbulent. During the first sort of 12 to 18 months, around about 18 months, we decided to separate. He moved to a different house. And so she was less than two when this happened. So she wasn't really aware of how, you know, I mean, tied to living in separate house, you know, he would come and get her a couple of times a week, and they would spend some time together and he would drop her back. So at that point, she wasn't doing any sleepovers. There was still a lot of feelings during that sort of period of time, because I didn't know where parenting I didn't know what was happening. And so for me, it was quite stressful. I was going through one of the hardest times I've ever had in my life, I had this terrible pregnancy, I just pregnant My body's all over the place and breastfeeding. And I'm, you know, now separating and moving houses. So it was it was hectic, completely. Yeah. So when fast forward a couple of years on this, this has just been going on. So feelings accumulating for him. For me. For her, it was just a really traumatic time. And a where parenting comes in. And of course, I start listening to feelings. And then I started realising that I could apply a lot of these principles to my relationship. So aware parenting really is just how you interact with another human being. So it has parenting in it. And we all go like, yeah, that works great for children. But you can literally apply the principles including attachment play to any human on the planet. So I think that was my really big aha moment. So yes, a lot of the interactions that we were having at the time, again, I had no spaciousness, I wasn't listening, I probably talked more than I listened. He didn't feel heard. I didn't feel heard. We were arguing a lot. It was really awful. When that all shifted, and that all changed, I started listening more to him listening to how he felt, rather than telling him how he should feel, yes, have you felt, you know, listening to how he wanted things to go. And it was definitely a, again, just very ebb and flow here, because there was so much emotion there. I mean, I had to really deal with not only the separation, but my whole ideal of family was lost. My parents have been married for 50 years, you know, my idea of what a family is that everybody says together and that's what happened. So I was dealing with a lot of that conditioning and having to think this is actually now my, my life. Yeah, all the while being a full time single mum, trying to, you know, go to a job and trying to do some things and you know, hold space and hold space and do things and it was just crazy. So the more I got into where parenting, the more I started to implement a lot of those techniques and the philosophy behind it, all the while kept upping my self care, upping the self care upping the self care. So it was yeah, the transition at the time, as I said she wasn't sleeping over. That was all the way up until about pretty much when my parents came in. So three and a half to four years. She started doing sleepovers. And that was once a fortnight every second Saturday, she would do that. So before that happened, we did a lot of play around that because that would be her first night away from me, ever. Yeah. So that was really big. So I spoke to him a lot about it. You know, she had my phone on all night if she needs me them and like just let me know. And he was like, No, I'm not gonna call you and I'm like, Okay, so there was like a lot. A lot for me. I didn't sleep the whole night. The first night she was away. Apparently she slept well. I don't know. So I don't know. But I know that when she got back the next day, I just made this huge, you know, welcome

19:43

home.

19:44

I'm so happy to see you. I can't wait to play with you. And that had continued now until now. Yeah. Yeah, quite a few. I'll call them traditions that we do in our house. They help transitions because they're still sometimes issue. Yeah. And of course, they're all age dependent. Yeah. So you can change them as per. As she was growing, we had to change them. So a lot of the things you know, before, before she goes throughout that entire week, because I know that she's going so old verbally prepare her because they forget, you know, they just, and I always say things like, okay, so this weekend, you're going to Popeyes house, and he'll pick you up on Saturday, and he's bring you back on Sunday. You know, might ask her a couple of days later, do you remember that? You're going to Popeyes house on the weekend? And she'd be like, yes. And sometimes she'd be like, No, you know, that. So just just, you know, constant, reminding, lots of play during the week. And then the night before she goes, we have what's called a Friday night girls night. And we've been having this since she was about four and four and a bit. So Friday night girls night consists something of she gets to choose movie will do you know, pillows, sack races, or some form of like relay or some Pictionary on game, something where it's cooperative, she gets to pick the food, which is to this day, almost always tacos, and then some form of like, nice dessert that we might make to get. So we might make a chocolate fondue. Or we might just make like ice cream with. We sit down, we watch the movie. And we just spend the entire night together. So I don't sessions, I don't have my phone on. Everybody in my world knows that this is our time not to contact me because you're not going to get me and she knows I've made it really clear to her that this is our time together. Yeah. So for her that really fills her cup before she has to go in the morning. If that's not a possibility, or if you've got more than one child, or you know, for whatever reason, it's really just about making something kind of special at the time before they transition to the next house. Yeah,

Shelley Clarke  21:45

yeah. And because that also helps with her really feeling secure in that in your relationship, even though they are secure. But like really feel the love having it, they're really fresh in their mind and in their bodies. So that when they are separating and going even though they're going to a parent that loves them, and that they know and all the things, it's just the transitions are hard for kids. And the change is hard. And it can be harder for some kids more than others. So I really love that it's basically like, not a one on one time with its present its present time. So yeah, amazing. And then so what about drop off? And you know, the next day, what what do you then?

22:31

Yes, generally, he comes in the morning. And again, this will be different for everybody. But we and I specifically spoke to him about this outside of you know, when we were organising how we're going to do drop offs and everything. I requested that he come earlier, rather than arriving right on time and having to leave really quickly. So if there's a possibility for the other parent who's picking up or if you're dropping off to arrive where you can actually spend, you know, 10 It just doesn't need to be long, but 10 or 15 minutes together. How are you, you know that and again, things might not be amicable. And we've got people that where they have family members do the drop off and things like that, but whoever's doing the drop off, if there's a possibility to spend a bit of time and not go hi, bye. Okay, by Yeah, by that will be because that can be really traumatic in itself. Yeah. And like you said, like spending that time before, even though they know they're going somewhere or whatever, it's literally just like a full cup before it's last chance, because they have lots of feelings about before. That's what I've really realised. So that's, that was really important, but drop off. Yeah, definitely. So just easy into the job of, you know, he'll quite often come in because he lives two hours south of us, and he'll go to the toilet, he'll get some water, I will always offer them, you know, do you want to take some fruit down with you. So she can see that we're being you know, yeah, of course, that took time. Like I'm not sitting here saying that was like the easiest process to do, but it was something I just had in my mind that no matter how this played out, I will have an amicable relationship, I will do whatever I need to do in my own world to have an amicable relationship. So really took that as as very, a big value of mine that no matter what he did, if he wanted to yell at me, or you know, whatever. It was like I am not going to react. I'm not going to do this and again, sidenote, I wasn't always on my best behaviour. I did have lots of little things that have gone over the years. But ultimately my main goal was I want this to be friendly. I want this to be easy I want to live my life in peace. So I really made that conscious choice. So yes, it comes in has a little bit of a play that she's mine game is

24:36

find out a bit more. Yeah,

24:38

yeah. So I had to again my my daughter's father is not not aware parenting he doesn't he's read a few things about it, but he's not super on board with it. And that's totally fine. And I can mention a few things that we will talk about that in a bit. Because I know that is a thing for people. But I did mention it and I said look play at this time is going to make it easier for you because you're not going to feel sad that she wants to stay with me because that was quite often the case. just wasn't working. So I explained that she's mind game, which is basically the parents, you know, he grabs one hand, and then I'm like, No, she's mine. And then he goes, No, no, she's fine. She's coming with me. No, she's mine. And then there's this big kind of tug of war with the child and the child is just laughing their heads off in the middle, you know, like, feeling so powerful feeling so loved so much, you know. And then I also explained to him some other games like the love cream game, when he was leaving, especially the velcro games, I love him games, saris, you know, you get the cream, and like, he was like getting there and pasting her all over with the cream, or like kissing her all over things like that. Yeah, the velcro game is quite useful. So he would like put her hand and go, Okay, well, if you're not going to come with me, I'm going to go now. And then he would like Velcro himself and drag her with him out the door, and she would start laughing. And there was always a little bit of me. I mean, for me, it's always like, really calm phase of you. And right here, you're going to have an amazing time. Yeah. And again, lots of inner work for me to get to that point, because there was times when when I didn't want her to go to I didn't know if it was, you know, it was always safe physically and everything, but there was a lot of feelings. So I didn't have anxiety about it. So again, just yeah, lots of my own stuff, you know, and always, for me having something really good to do as soon as she left. So I would like always plan myself to go surfing, or I'd have a yoga class, or I'd be meeting a friend, so that I wouldn't be sitting at home going, I miss my child. And that is I'm too busy to do that. But at the time, I was like, I'm just gonna do something that I really love. So that I'm looking forward to something as well. And so that,

Shelley Clarke  26:35

yeah, that's a really good tip for someone that is early in this in the journey, if they are, you know, separating and co parenting, and you know, they are having those feelings. That's a really great tip to just plan something that you really love doing. And so you've got that ready to do.

26:51

And it's not what I realised I told myself a long time, that was a distraction. But yeah, because I was really conscious. And I was like, No, I've dealt with a lot of those feelings. It was still sad. You know, in the beginning, it was like, when I saw them walk off, I'd be like, oh, there goes my family. And I'd go, No, this is for the best. You know, these are the reasons why. And I actually had a, you know, I journal a lot, but I would actually go back and go, Okay, these are the reasons why this is the way it is. And this is how I feel. And this is what happened and just sort of remind myself that it wasn't the ideal situation, and were much better off like this. And then to go yep, okay, cool. And quite often, I'd be in the sort of having a good cry anyway.

Shelley Clarke  27:27

So and yeah, that is, like, I was gonna ask about that. Because, you know, sometimes it is having that something fun to go and do because it brings you joy, but you also do want to continue to listen and feel your own feelings, and not just, you know, continue to distract out of it. So having both is helpful.

27:47

Yeah, and just bringing the awareness to that as well. And then it doesn't become it's not a control pattern. For me, it's a release, I know that I can go there. And I can feel so free and happy and just fill my cup of beer before I come back and do you know, whatever I'm doing.

Shelley Clarke  28:03

So you said talk about the game. So going back to the love cream and Velcro. And so then she's happy to go,

28:12

chips. We have another little thing as she goes, which we still use at school as well. So we have like a little sign we we tap our heart twice with our fist and we make like a peace sign. And that just mean the two of us. We're always in the heart. So she'll always do something like that. That's sort of our last little connection. And then they go down to the car and I go out to the balcony, and she sees me again. And she waves and you know, so there's all these little things. And then as she drives off, I can't see her anymore. Yeah. So during while the time during the time that she's there, and again, this will really be dependent on families. But in the beginning, it was quite difficult for me to have phone calls with her because she would get so upset and want to come home. Yeah. And we thought I couldn't go and get her he couldn't bring her home. So we did decide that, you know, we wouldn't do phone calls, but we would do audio messages, or listening to audios where it wasn't live. She couldn't talk back to me that she could send them send it back to me and still have that connection. Yeah, I would quite often write little notes and things as well. So I would always make her like a little food pack and I put little notes in there so that she could you know, or photo. We also also used to make bracelets so we used to make the same bracelets and she would put her bracelet on and I would put my bracelet on as she's grown older. She has a mochi watch now so we can actually send photos to each other we can send audio and she can call me when she has as well. So but that didn't come until sort of this year. Yeah. Oh another one I was going to mention she used to draw like a little love heart on the under inside of her arm and fill it with kisses. Yeah, heart would stay on. Even if she'd had a shower. She wouldn't watch that part because that would be everything. She looked at it and the idea was she pushed it and then my love would go through her body.

Shelley Clarke  29:48

We have that a similar one as well. We have often a little little love heart on like on the wrist or you know on the on the hand or somewhere for Isla, my daughter when she would go to school I And she would pump I'd fill it with love in the morning, kind of like a petrol station and fill up, fill up and we'd go the love station. And yeah, fill up this love heart with love. And then every time at school she needs, you know, an injection of love. She would get that. So I love that game I might have did I get that from you? I don't know where I got that from. But I don't

30:21

know. I I've heard so many of your games. I've used so many of you. Yeah, shout our towel, the shower train. That's

Shelley Clarke  30:28

yeah, I think it's so good. Because you get a bit stuck in your own game. So whenever I have new games or see someone else's games, I'm like, Yeah, let's try that. And you know, the kids love it. So I think it's always good that we're sharing game ideas. Because yeah, I need to get some new ones every now and then. So what do you do for reconnecting when you get home?

30:53

Yeah. So this, this is always like, probably, if everything else fails, and the drop offs terrible, and you know, they're having a terrible time while they're at home. What I love to tell parents and what I love to keep in mind for myself is that our way of parenting can fix it. Yeah, thing can heal it. Games can heal it connection can heal it. You've got this, there's not going to be a problem. There's nothing that you can't fix with this. Yes. So yeah, the home time is really important. I always again, just specifically make time where I don't book anything. I don't have my phone with me this. And I generally only allow like an hour, half an hour to an hour because in our situation, she comes home at six o'clock at night on a Sunday. So we're getting school, we're doing all that. So just you know, whatever you can do is going to be amazing. But generally, she'll come up the stairs and I'll do this huge well welcome home Bella and I scream alga and I jumped on God, I think it's been like a year since I've seen you been and now she's nine. So she's like, was one night mom. Yeah.

Shelley Clarke  31:52

I love as I start to get older, we play with them. And they're like, oh, and we get our roles. And you're like, come on loving it.

31:59

Loving it. Yeah, so always big hugs, lots of all that sort of stuff. Again, I just invite Him in, we spend 10 minutes doing whatever he'll tell me about what happened. If there's any things that came up, we often talk about that, if it's anything major, I'll quite often just say, Look, I'm not willing to talk about that now. But I'd love to speak to you about that tomorrow on the phone, school. So we just keep it like as light and friendly as possible. And then he'll leave. And it's us. And I'm like, I go and I make like this big running. And then I jump on the sofa. And I like big star like open my legs and open my arms and like I'm ready. And then she comes and she gives me a big hug. And quite often there's lots of tears straightaway, she does Yeah, into tears. And then there's heaven. And then I didn't have a choice about these. And then, you know, for a child, a lot of choice and autonomy in one place and not so much in the other it can be that's pretty much the main thing that that she felt, you know, caused us to do some stuff. Very often, there's lots of things that she enjoyed. So I try and you know, put shine a light on those things. Tell me more about those things. And it really for us, there's not really much play. It's just holding space, and crying and crying and crying and hugging and crying and hugging. And then I have to sort of, you know, offer a loving limit to Okay, so I'm so here to listen to more feelings. But you know, we're going to go and get ready for school now. And you know, I just keep her with me. So I think that's an eye thing. Like, even though I can't or not can't I don't have willingness to listen anymore at that time. Because otherwise the night just gets really, really late. Yeah, I just try and keep her with me. So she makes lunches with me. We you know, I make funny jokes about the sandwiches or, you know, I might grab an orange and put it in between the two pieces of bread and go is this good for sandwiches sandwich? Like just silly things. Lots of nonsense play in the kitchen. And then yeah, bedtime routine, get to bed. And again, I might just check in and just go into how you're feeling now is there anything else you want to, you know, let out? We do we do often pay one or two games before bed. So generally, it's a fight or sack racing. Yep. But again, just small amounts, because I'm not a spaciousness is what I'd like to be in the evenings these

Shelley Clarke  34:06

days. It is hard when you're, you know, everyone's getting late. And sometimes they would play and play and play and play and play. So you know, is doing what we have capacity for I think is a really nice reminder for parents because sometimes we only have capacity for 10 minutes of something and that's

34:24

okay. That it's better than nothing and that's okay, as well. Yeah,

Shelley Clarke  34:29

absolutely. Absolutely. And so once like I really wanted to highlight like, and because I know when parents that come to me that are navigating co parenting and maybe it's just started or maybe it's been a long time and the that may be aware of aware parenting as much but they come home the child has a lot of big behaviours, because I know she comes home and just cries because this is her nose But this is a space for that. But what would you recommend? Or what do you say to parents when the kid comes home, and then you're seeing big behaviours, and it's really hard. And the parents like, almost dreading having their kid almost come home in that. You want to see them. But it's the it's the aftermath of being at the other parent, parents house. Do you have any suggestions around that, or ways to kind of ease that, obviously, the play and stuff you've been talking about, but what else would you say?

35:33

I'm so glad you mentioned that, because I forgot about that. But that even today, I sometimes feel like, Oh, she's coming home, and I don't have spaciousness to listen. And I do get those feelings as well even, you know, six years on. And, you know, what I'd really like to say is, obviously, like, accepting the behaviour for what it is, there is always a need underneath the behaviour, but really being able to check in with yourself and just listening or seeing the thoughts that are coming up. When that starts happening. And I suppose this applies to just if your child's having a meltdown for any reason, instead of new to the, oh, my god, I can't handle this, like, Oh, my God, I wish you would stop this. She's doing this just to annoy me. Like, really, for me just cutting those sorts of thoughts and going changing them with, she's doing this because she needs me more. Yeah, she's doing this because she needs more love, not less, you know, having

36:23

a hard time. Yeah, she's

36:24

having a hard time she's in pain, I'll qualify myself, she's in pain. Because instantly my mother instinct kicks in, like, I don't want her to be in pain. So that's that, for me, that really works, that reminder really works. Anything where again, just you having your cup full before they get home, it's going to help. And I quite often put music on time. So there is that it's not just me at home and waiting. And, you know, I will also try and have lots of other things done so that I'm not kind of bluffing around so that I can be present. But it's really just about a lot, again, just a lot of that inner work. And that's why, you know, I don't know if he'll let the listeners know about Mary method, of course, Mary method, mentor, but that side of things goes so well with our parenting. Because we're parenting is great for all the listening to feelings and games and everything, but the Marian method is for you. And it's for you to get your grounding. And to get your peace and to go, I'm willing for this, I'm not willing for this, it's for you to really stand in your power in these situations. So I always highly recommend both. Both Yeah, because they just weave so well together. And they have you know, that framework, the Marian method framework has really, I guess, ultimately helped me make this situation the way it is and make a conscious co parenting situation. And that's not to say again, that it's perfect all the time. It's not, it's not perfect all the time. Definitely. But my goodness, it is like 99% better than what it could ever have been before. Due to those processes. The inner loving presence process me really working out over the last couple of years where my near nose set, setting a lot of things that I was just had a big no for. And, you know, also my yeses, what do I want out of this? Rather than going I don't want this. I don't want this. What do I want? What do I want it to look like? And then doing big willingness walls? You know, 16 Page willingness was on what I want this thing to look like. Yeah, it has energetically it's changed when we interact energetically with change. I love nonviolent communication, if anybody feels called to read that book, yeah, great. Change your life in the way that I was requesting things from him. I was no longer demanding with my, you know, anger and my back up and going well, why why aren't you doing this? It was okay, you know, just that route, really respectful, kind, loving, compassionate, and also seeing that he also had needs in this. Yep. It's really easy to say our child's needs in a separation. And then I guess the next step for me was seeing my needs in the situation. And then the evolution of it is seeing your ex partner's needs because they're just a human, they've been the same separation. You know, they have their own conditioning around this. They have their own inner child stuff going on and childhood traumas. And maybe they're not as lucky to know about a way parenting in the mailroom method is what you are if you know if you're in that field, and for me that just brought so much love and empathy and compassion situation. And so I started seeing him in such a different light to what I had seen before. And so I think that's just yeah, that's how it is gotten to this point. And it's, it's really when I look back at the journey from where we started to where we were without this work without the Marian method and without a web parenting I do not want I know for a fact but I will say I do not think that we would have the situation that we have we would not be able to make it work especially him moving two hours down. We would not be we have every day As a party together, I invite him to Christmas every single year, we go down there to see him for his birthday. We, I, you know, constantly sending photos and things of what she's doing at school because he misses out on a lot of that stuff. So just seeing him as a human being, rather than, you know, the ex that ruined my life,

40:19

or the things he doesn't do. Yeah,

40:23

100% Shelly, like judgement in violent communication, the judgement has been completely taken out of it for me. So he can still do things that really annoy me. And I can go yeah, I'm really annoyed. But I don't, you did this. So I feel so annoyed. And it's your fault. It's just gone. All of that's gone. And that is absolute freedom. For me, it's freedom.

Shelley Clarke  40:43

Wow, that's an incredible place to get to, and such a gift that you're giving her when you are co parenting in this way. And it does require a lot of work from you. And, you know, probably both parties as well to get to. But yes, nonviolent communication is a wonderful book, and a wonderful philosophy as well, for anyone listening to help with communication styles and ways that we can communicate our needs, as opposed to trying to say what we need, but it often comes across as a judgement and blame and the other person gets defensive. And then you know, you end up in arguments and

41:25

in a separated relationship, because there's already those emotions there. Yeah, that's like a place where we really need to tread lightly in terms of language and how we're requesting things. Yeah, yeah,

Shelley Clarke  41:37

absolutely. Do you want to talk a little bit more, there's anything else that you wanted to share around like coming home and reconnecting and, you know, the helping transition between two, two, however,

41:51

there was one game that I thought would be useful that we did used to use a lot, she doesn't use it much anymore. But it was really for that sort of starting period until six, we used to put this magic cloak on. It was sort of like a protective bubble. And, you know, before we used it, we sat down, she drew it out on a piece of paper, it was all these colours, and it had diamonds over it and had a hood, you know, like Harry Potter board, it was, quote, sort of thing. And I said to her, you know, I'm not going to be able to be there physically. But if you need extra protection, or you need extra love, or extra hugs, you can put your magic cloak on. And so a couple of times, she'd be, you know, walking out the door, and she'd flip the hood over and zip herself up. And, you know, like, it was a real really good, helpful thing for her. And yeah, I'm, you know, in our situation, I mean, her dad is extremely loving, He's extremely present with her when she's there. You know, he does anything for her. But she's still a lot of emotion going through those times. So I can imagine if that is not your situation, and there is, you know, stresses and, you know, safety is a concern or whatever, that that might be something that might be, you know, helpful for the child in the moment, just something physical, where they think no matter what, I've got this,

Shelley Clarke  43:00

you know, yeah, yeah, well, and the imagination is so powerful. So, you know, actually, yeah, that is a great game. Thank you for sharing that. We're going to talk a little bit more about when we have different parenting philosophies and how we navigate that or how you've navigated that and how you help, because I know you help parents a lot with with this with co parenting with the separating, or how do we navigate not being on the same page? Yeah. So

43:30

I mean, I always say to people, like, we're all co parenting relationship, or if you're not in a relationship, like everyone's got their styles, don't

Shelley Clarke  43:39

they? Yes. And this can be within, like you said, they don't necessarily need to be separate houses. A lot of parents that I work with, one has one style, and one has another and it's like trying to navigate getting on the same page or something close to the same book, you know? Yes. Exactly. Right. I mean, the same

43:59

set of encyclopaedias, let's you know, it's so it's such a big deal.

44:05

I mean, we all come from different upbringings, different cultures, sometimes for us, it was different languages, as well, just completely different ways of how we even thought we were going to parent before we were parents. So even that conditioning is quite, you know, heavy as well as that you're I always thought I was kind of this type of mum, and now I'm this type of mum, or whatever it is. And then again, you've got the you know, more authoritarian domination, style parenting, you've got the more permissive, and then you've got this beautiful heart in the middle, which is a welfare and yeah, so yeah, if you have very strong threads of that, maybe in how you were brought up or how you want it to be as a parent, then yes, you're going to probably end up in these, you know, tugs of war and how each parent thinks is best. Yes, still learning around some things that keep continually coming up, especially as she gets older. You know, like watch was a really good example because he didn't think she was old enough to have it. I was in a situation where If I turned up to school late, I wasn't able to let her know. The gates just shut and she'd be in there and I couldn't get in. And there's all these locking. So for me to just go, I'm going to be five minutes late, or go stay with the teacher or whatever it was. So it was for me, it was a safety concern. And she's also nine now. So she's starting to go to friends houses, and have, you know, playdates and stay longer. She hasn't done any sleepovers yet, but that sort of thing. So he was like, she's not young, she's not old enough, not old enough. And so again, I said, Yeah, I really hear that, you know, you think she's not old enough. My situation is this. So just letting him know my needs. And you know, here's how I think about it. And also, I think it would benefit you, because it's another way that you could have communication with her that is not through me or my phone, when I'm at work, and whatever. So you can message her, you can talk to her. So it's also a way you know, that you can have more contact. So that was the sort of way I guess it's always about what are the needs? That's the first question is, what is everybody's needs in this situation, you have a need, I have a need for her to feel safe, you have a need for her not to, for example, get in trouble playing with a phone at school, or whatever it is. Or it might be you think she's not enough, she's not responsible enough. So then okay, to meet that need, we both had a conversation with her and said, look, the first time that you either have something happened at school, or you play with it at a time, when you're not going to be able to play with it, it has to be taken, we can't give it to you anymore. All trust, you know, upfront, etc. And then she knew and she's never had, she has been amazing with it. Yes. I guess the first question when those conflicts always come up, is what everybody's need here. So it might be a discipline issue, they one person might think that they need more harsh discipline because of the behaviour, whatever it was, and now they might think, no, it's not necessary. So I guess just working out what each what each person's need is, and then hearing them, like really hearing them and really going Yep, okay, I get it. And here's this, and how can we work towards it? So, you know, working towards those Win Win situations. And also, again, I think this is so much about ourselves, and our inner work. And again, really checking in with our willingness. What is it a real need to know for me? Or is it me just saying no, because I'm feeling powerless in another situation? And I want to take power over something here. Yep. So yeah, so really differentiating for myself, just talking from my own experience, whether I was saying no, you know, because he'd said no to something, you know, whenever and I wanted, whatever, or whether it

47:31

was a power battle.

47:32

Yeah, exactly. Or whether it was a real No, for me, and for this was a real Yes. For me, I'm I'm really sorry. And I really hear what you're saying. But I'm up here. This is how life is. And I feel like I think it will be a really useful tool for me. Yeah, I hear you. And this is, this is where I stand on it sort of thing. And in the end, you know, it's been great. And, you know, he's enjoying it. So, you know, it did work out. But I guess yeah, just knowing in yourself that where you stand on the situation, picking your battles, I don't really enjoy that phrase been for resonance for people picking your battles, in terms of how far you're willing to go, you know, to argue, how much does mean to you? Yes, is getting hurt in the meantime. And it's generally the child because once the parents who are separated or not separated, start arguing, it really becomes about so many other things, and not about what the original situation was. So yeah, really only leaning in, if you have a really strong yes for it, or a really strong no for it. And then knowing in yourself that first and that's sort of something that I was doing by myself. So I wasn't sharing all of that with him. I just went through that process alone, I was using willingness walls, I was using inner loving presences to hear my feelings, and to really decide where I stood on it. And then I was delivering him my answer. Yeah, yeah.

Shelley Clarke  48:52

Rather than projecting your own hurts and your own feelings and all the things on to him, you have a tools now to work through that away from him to then just take to him the need or the know, or the Yes, or the want or whatever it is, without the emotion without the emotion without because you've processed. And I actually think that that that process is what's helped my marriage. And in you know, Matt and I have been together for oh, no, no, for 1213 years, been married for nearly 12. And that has been something that has helped us where I might have, you know, feelings come up or want to say something or want to do something, but noticing what is mine, and having spaces and processes to go and deal with that and work through the emotion and work out where it's coming from because it's often not coming from what he's just said. It's coming from my childhood and earlier times and my teenage years and all the things and once I've worked through that I can actually just go to him and say, oh, actually what you're saying is fine, like You know, yes or no, like, it's not even an issue anymore. Because a lot of time it's taking responsibility for my own feelings and not throwing them onto him.

50:11

Yeah, no one else is responsible for our feelings. I think that's a really tough pill to swallow for a lot of people is it's so easy to go. But you made me feel like this. And I'm so tired because of everything I'm doing. And I'm, I'm so sitting here, sorry, I'm sitting here from a place of zero judgement, because this is my experience, I'm talking to that experience. You did this and data. And I've done this all by myself, and you know, all of those things. And it's all I did was I stopped pointing out to the world, and I put my finger back at me and said, what, what is my part in this? What am I going to do about this? How am I going to heal myself, this is my journey, this is my responsibility. And in that, as painful as it was, because it was not fun. Anybody that's done any amount of inner work. Fun, okay, it's not popcorn and all, you know, ours and rainbows, it's terrible, it's hard work. But the result is that you are in you are the one who's powerful to be able to that you take all the power, because you're not relying on anyone else to make you feel a certain way, or to help you feel a certain way. It can be done as quickly or as slowly as you want. It can be done in any way that you want with processes without processes, you know, writing it down, however, you're going to do it. It's all with you. And so as hard as it is, you're the one that stands in your power, so then everything else becomes easier when you take that accountability back.

Shelley Clarke  51:35

Hmm. I love that so much. And that's, you know, that's true in any relationship. And it's true with whether you're under the same roof, your your parents, your kids, your sister, your work your boss at the schools. Yeah, you know, the teachers, you take your kids and take, you know, who's teaching your kids that's in every single relationship is noticing what is coming up for you? And realising that it's actually probably not them. And that there's something there for you to look at. And then you write, we get to stand in our power around it. Yeah. So incredible. What about when you were first starting out with a way of parenting? And how would someone navigate that when you're learning these things? And you know, the other partner is not as willing to open up to it? What? You know, how how's that landed? Because obviously, you do sort of a web parent, where you do wear parenting and understand these things in your home. But in the other home, it's pretty probably standard. Yep. It's not a word. Like what am I gonna just call that

52:49

no label or whatever it? Yes. It's not a way of parenting. Yeah.

Shelley Clarke  52:55

And so how did you like how, yeah, how did that journey look? Yes, I

53:00

think in especially in the beginning, when, like you said, I didn't really know much about it. And I couldn't just talk off the top of my head about it. I hadn't read any books. I was I did the course. But I'm still very much learning. I guess I would. So I would only share things that I thought were really relevant. And I would share them from a place of hey, I read this article the other day, and it was really great. Would you be willing to read it? I do. Yeah. Definitely didn't say it like that back in the day. But that's how I would probably say it now.

53:25

Which I've certainly said, You need to read this. Yeah, pretty much. I saw the article. And it was so amazing, isn't it, you have to read it, please read it, please. Go down, well, be willing to

53:37

read it. Yeah. And then quite often, he just wouldn't, or he wouldn't, or he would just not respond. And like that's so fun. Because that was such a very difficult time. So I just sort of kept them and kept them kept them. Over the time. He's been on this incredible, beautiful journey as well. And he has really opened up to a lot of conscious style parenting, he does a lot of listening. Not not in the same way. But he is sort of open to that. But there was a long time when he just wasn't what I would do instead. And what I have done with every single person in my life that either doesn't agree with it doesn't think it works or just doesn't support what I'm doing because they think it's going to produce a windy clingy child non confidence child. I just show it I just literally demonstrate it everywhere I go, you know, I specifically Don't take her away if she's crying, I just deal with it in the moment in front of people I've watched I let them watch me hold space for tears. I quite often you know, like use the language that we use and all of that sort of I just demonstrate it so I think demonstrating it puts no pressure on the other person there that witness how it works and you know for whatever part you know of a way parenting at that time. And of course with you learning at that time as well. It's it's practice and it's just practice and practice and practice. And what I love about the way parenting now as opposed to the beginning was I felt a lot of fear and nervousness was around, you know, listening to crying in the shopping centre, for example, or, you know, even in front of people who clearly didn't agree with what I was doing. So I had, again, lots of inner work lots of inner loving mother phrases to be like, this is okay, this, you know, you're doing what's right for your child, you know, that this works, and then building up that confidence and building up that, you know, ability to just do it. Wherever we go. Yeah,

Shelley Clarke  55:25

yeah. Which is amazing. And I've certainly had that same journey to where other start, I didn't even really know if this was gonna work, like, you know, like, Oh, listen to this crash, and that'd be fixing this. But over the years, as I've seen what happens with kids, after they've had a chance to offload and share and express their feelings, I've got more confidence, and then you're able to do that in front of other people, and then it ripples out from there. You know, I feel like people have come on their journey with it around me at their own pace. So that is just something to remember as well that people will bring up like that they might not be ready yet to hear things. And that if you just continue to do your healing and your journey that eventually things change around you as well, for people to come along.

56:17

Absolutely. And also like, and they may never come along as well. They're just not get on board. And I've just decided that this is what we're doing. I believe in it. I share it with anybody that will listen, lots of people who didn't agree with it now agree with it. Yeah.

Shelley Clarke  56:34

And you just never know, when that seed that you've planted might actually, like, even the people that you go, Oh, they're never gonna get that, or, you know, they're never going to change they might not. And they may in 20 years time or just never know.

56:49

Yeah, yeah. I mean, because she's nine at the moment. And I, you know, quite often have people ask me, but how do you know it works? You know, when they're teenagers, and I send them to Justin Fareed, and I go look, well, his his the next level of where this goes, you know, because when I was four, I, that was my biggest thing, this bit of work, this has to work, you know, I was like, hanging on by a thread. And now that I'm, you know, six years past that, I'm like, I know it works. Mike, my child is the most confident child I've ever met. She has no problem going between, you know, school and whatever. She's so she holds herself so beautifully. She now, which I think is another amazing characteristic of a web parenting is she now has the language and the skill and the knowledge to compassionately and empathetically hold space for others. Yeah, I see it at school, like holding space for nine year olds, not distracting, not dissociating, not offering food, not offering water, just hugging her friends saying, I hear you feel really sad right now. I'm here, I'm listening. And I just watched in all and I think we are changing generational patterning, we are changing conditioning with this with whether we're parenting and that's what's that's what how I know it works. Because I see it in the next level going down, like this next generation of kids who have been aware parented, the world will change, it will change. So that's just beautiful like that

Shelley Clarke  58:16

for me. And I really agree. And I see that too, like when my, just my children's ability to be with feelings, and to be with their own, but also to be with and you know, not all the time, but but to be with other kids feelings, and seeing my son play with his younger siblings, like, you know, my oldest play, when they're upset, or when they're doing something. And, you know, he's trying to kind of play and do these games, and I'm like, Oh, my gosh, you know, you can see it happening. And then when my daughter goes and, and goes to, you know, a little cousin, like, I'm right here, listening, and she looks like lovingly, my niece or nephew, and she just, um, right here, I'm like, Oh, my gosh. So it's, and you're right. That was actually one of my questions. When you mentioned before, I know, one of the fears of often other often ex partners or partners or grandparents or, you know, the people around us is that but isn't this going to just, you know, raise children to be clinging and, you know, what did you say before clingy and whiny or something they're not, you know, you know, because they're always in their feelings. They're always you know, you can just cry whenever a new you know, what would you say to that, like, what has been your what do you notice from your experience?

59:37

It's like the complete opposite. Yeah, absolute complete opposite. So, she, you know, again, lots of crying in the beginning, lots and lots and lots of crying. Even now, if she sheds a tear, people will say, you know, toughen up the Girls Don't Cry, all of those things, and she will turn around and say, My feelings are welcome. My feelings are okay here. I'm allowed to cry in my house. Yeah, to show you know, and it's in that acceptance of her being allowed to do that, that she gets it all out. And then she's happy, cooperative, calm, incredible little human for 90% of the time. Yeah. It's just the way that I said it's a toolkit. So for me, it was a toolkit, what I'm offering her as a toolkit, whether she's with me or not, she knows what to do with her feelings. Yeah, is that maybe she's at school, and she has something happened. And she can't let those feelings out there. But she knows when she gets home, boom, save face, open up. And quite often you hear parents say, Oh, they got in the car, and they just broke down, of course, because they've been holding it in for the entire day. So you're this safe place. So take that as a beautiful compliment that you are there safe place to release those feelings? And then what, 20 minutes of your time of doing that, and then they're up and often playing? And they, like you said, put that in their backpack to unpack 20 years down the track in a therapist office? Yes, absolutely. It's like, they just unpack it every day, they unpack it every day. And then they become adults who go, okay, it is okay to cry. I'm feeling sad. I'm going to sit in these feelings, or I'm going to call a listening partner or I'm going to call someone to tell talk about it. I'm not going out for a drink with my girlfriends. I'm not going out to dance. No, I'm not going out to or to numb. Yeah, basically, or sit on my phone scrolling for hours. I know, it's okay to have feelings. I know it's okay to be sad. And all of that is perfectly accepted and fine. So it's this incredible toolkit that you're giving your child for the rest of their existence. And then they are passing that on to others. And you can imagine what kids, children who have been were parented, what they turn out, like in when they enter romantic relationships and things like that, how much more aware how much passionate and seeing the person's needs, and I just

Shelley Clarke  1:01:49

beautiful, like, it's just beautiful. Yeah, absolutely. And I love all of that. And I think just like anyone around us with their doubts, because we haven't seen this for too many generations, right? You know, we've got, we're lucky here in Australia, we've got a few people that have been doing it for, you know, they've got kids that 10 years older, like Leyland Johnson married and other instructors, but there's not many, because it's, you know, so, of course, there's going to be doubts, but seeing them and hearing from those kids, if there is we are starting to see second generation people that have come through with these conscious parenting approaches, and aware parenting and listening and hand in hand and hearing them speak from their experience has been so helpful for me to be like, okay, you know, the teenage years don't have to be hard and awful, and they can be fun and exciting and connected. And it can be a very different experience, you know, with these tools. So it's just nice to hear from other instructors their experience of it as well.

1:02:58

Yeah. And I mean, even like you said, like, you can see it in your children, and they're not teenagers. But you can see the changes that are already being made my child's nine, I can see the changes that have already been made. And you know, of course, even coming up to the teenage years, I'm probably still going to have, yeah, isn't concerns and all of those things. But what I know to be true in my heart is that connection is key. Right? I'm doing if I just keep connecting, nothing can go wrong. There's no wrong like, set the boundary, you've set the foundation. It's just connect, connect, connect, connect. Yeah. Yeah. yourself and then come back and connect and connect and connect. Yep,

Shelley Clarke  1:03:33

absolutely. Yeah. I love that. Any other words of wisdom around any of the things that we've been talking about terms of play? What's your favourite play game at the moment, actually, in your house? Because I really just selfishly want to steal some more games. I need some ideas. I need some injection.

1:03:53

What are you loving at the moment doing at the moment put you on the spot, you know, to announce that we do. We're doing lots of like Jenga. So lots of like, cooperation games, but actual board games.

1:04:03

Yesterday, because I

1:04:05

birthed my new course this week. So I launched, I said birth and so she has been asking me about birth and things. So we I was laying on the sofa. And then it was like, Alright, what do you want to play? And she was like, I know. And then she went and she got her medical care. And she got a blanket and she got a Cabbage Patch Doll took all its clothes off. And I'm looking at her going, Oh, I don't know if I'm willing for this. You know, so Okay, so then we played a whole birthing game and she was the funny doctor coming in. And she was saying the funniest things like, oh, you know, my name is Dr. Raja. And I've never delivered a baby before I've just had about two hours of training and it was all on drinking coffee. So I was in stitches. I was absolutely laughing my head off. And so of course she's going in there with the you know, the utensils and things and I'm like feeling a little bit uncomfortable. So it's okay, well, it's gonna change over. So that was Yeah, roleplay in our house is quite

Shelley Clarke  1:04:57

great. And unlike regression play and redoing your birth and redoing so much of that stuff. I think that's one point to make is that we think as the kids get older, they're not. They don't they don't want to play with us. But they really, really do. She's nine and she's playing regression games still, which is so amazing.

1:05:14

And I love actually wrote a post about that the other week solely about how they initiate it. And we always have a chance, like, do we enter in? Are we willing to enter into the play? Or are we just gonna say, knock right now is, and I love that the more often and I know, it's not possible all the time. But if you have willingness for it, and you do enter into those games, whenever they do, because they just initiate games all time do quite often we're in that adult head where we're like, I've got 1000 things to do, and I need to do this. And the last thing I feel like doing is playing, you know, and then they start playing and you just like, ah, but if you can just go Yeah, okay, five minutes of play, or it might be like, contingency plays. Now, floor is lava, like, yeah, it can yell it out at any time. And I'm like, in the shower, like, Oh, God, and I'm up on the side of the thing, you know, or we supply pop up hide and seek, but she's getting too big now. And there's not many places. So for little ones, that would be a good one that you know, wherever you are in the house, you just yell out I had a pop up Hide and Seek and then they all have to go scatter and run and pretend you can't find them. Those sorts of things. But yeah, contingency play even at nine is just no good. Yeah, yeah. Like reading the books together. Like she can read but she still loves me to read to her and like, you know, clapping the books, all that nonsense player, I might read something and read it completely incorrectly. And she'll be like, or pronounce a word incorrectly, that you know that she knows. Nothing should just be like, Oh my god, Mom, didn't you learn that at school? Like, you know, anything like that? Lots of power reversal. Super Power reversal before transitions. Yeah. So Yeah,

Shelley Clarke  1:06:45

amazing. Amazing. I love all of that. Where can people find more about you and what you're doing? And I know you're new courses out? Yay. Yes, that

1:06:56

was a year in the making. It's out it's finally out in the world. So for the next two days, that's 33% off till tomorrow. So you can find me at peaceful parenting on Instagram. Peaceful parenting.com.au is my website. It's in maintenance mode for the next day or two. And then it'll be live. And on Facebook peaceful.parenting.com. Today, you amazing and you want to tell us a little bit more about your course. Sure. So I really created this as the course that I, I guess wanted. It's a whole course about my experience coming into our parenting. And it covers all the basics of our parenting. So sleep crying and huge chapter on crying and feelings. Attachment play. Yeah, all the different styles, lots of examples. And then just, I guess, lots of weight woven in with Marian method stuff that I've learned along the way. So it isn't aware parenting course. And I do very much separate when I say this is this is where parenting, but just because they go so well together. And what I know now, if I had been served with this course, back then I just would have been on cloud nine. The it's a seven modules, but it's five hours total watching or listening time there's downloadable transcripts and PDFs, the PDFs have all the information in them. The videos, I do a lot of examples. So a lot of the stuff that I talked about, I'm not in the PDS, it's just life examples. But I really aimed it at people who wanted like a quick kind of overview. Or if you do have a partner on board who's like, look, alright, I'll watch something, you know. And then it's like a five hour commitment, they get a full overview of everything, they can either dip their toe just in crying and feelings, or they could dip their toe in attachment play. Maybe they just take something out of it that's you know, or maybe a grandparent or another support person. But yeah, it's it is an introduction to web parenting, it does have a little bit of my own method. It is for people who are newer, or wanting a refresher or just trying to get somebody else in the same space.

Shelley Clarke  1:08:50

Yeah, amazing. Amazing. And you have also got a really comprehensive playbook that you have written, which is on your website. Is it on your website? Or is it downloadable?

1:09:03

Yeah, it's downloadable. So it's an instant, free, just put,

Shelley Clarke  1:09:07

we put that in the link, actually, we'll put that in the show notes for you. So for anyone listening, we'll put the link to next free attachment playbook, because it's got lots of games in there. Really comprehensive, you know, play, play ideas. And it's always great to get new ideas around play. Because every family will create their own little sort of version of a game and you're like, oh, that's when we bring it into our family. It feels like a brand new game. Exactly. Exactly. So that's great. Thank you so much for coming on today and for having a chat. It's been wonderful. And for anyone that is interested in finding out more, you know, go and follow Nick because she does wonderful work. And thank you so much.

1:09:50

Thank you for having me. Shelley such a beautiful conversation.

Shelley Clarke  1:09:53

Thank you. Thank you. Bye for now. Thank you for listening. This episode was brought to you by 21 days of Play my self paced course to help bring more play into your every day. Thank you so much for listening. I would love to know your thoughts and feelings and to continue the conversation. You can connect with me on Instagram and Facebook @_Shelleyclarke_ . If you'd like to keep in the loop for all my resources and offerings as they happen, you can join my mailing list at www.shelleyclarke.com Thank you for all you are doing. Your parenting is important and powerful. Have a lovely day. Bye for now