Somatic Practices for ourselves and our parenting with Abbey Stanbrook

In this episode Shelley chats with fellow Aware Parenting Instructor and somatic wellness coach Abbey Stanbrook. Abbey supports families to find balance in their bodies and within their family units, is also the founder of The Somatic Seasons podcast and runs circles and workshops for families online and in person.  Listen as she shares with us about the different parts of our nervous system and how they impact our parenting.

In this episode you'll learn about:
- what a grounding and orienting practice sounds and feels like
- the voo sound and how it can bring your body back into balance
- what hyper and hypo activity in your nervous system may look like
- the relationship between sympathetic activation and social engagement is
- how to work through anger and grief as a parent
- some easy to use tools and practices to help when your nervous system is activated... and so much more!

 If you are wanting to feel like you are equipped with the tools to be a more calm, balanced parent, then this is the podcast episode for you!

Continue the conversation with Shelley here:
https://www.facebook.com/shelleyclarkemindbodyparenting
https://www.instagram.com/_shelleyclarke_/

Find Abbey Stanbrook here:
IG: @abbeyheartlove
FB: Abby Stanbrook
Website

This podcast is produced by Nikki O'Brien from Quintessential Being

Transcript

 Shelley Clarke  00:00

I wish to acknowledge the traditional custodians of the lands I live on. I pay my respects to the Kaurna people elders past and present, and honour their ongoing traditions. Welcome to the mind body parenting podcast. I'm your host, Shelley Clarke. Here I talk about all things mind and body and how this relates to ourselves and our parenting. I envision a world where children are seen and heard, and parents feel supported and less alone. Join me here in the power of story, expert knowledge and lived experiences. Let's dive in.

00:39

Today's episode is brought to you by kids in Adelaide. For all the best events, activities, places to visit and things to do with your kids in Adelaide and around South Australia. Visit www.kidsinadelaide.com.au. Welcome to the mind body parenting podcast. I'm your host Shelley Clarke and today I have the absolute pleasure of chatting with Abbey Stanbrook. Abbey is a fellow aware parenting instructor and somatic wellness coach who supports families to find balance in their bodies and within their family units. She is the founder of Somatic Seasons podcast and runs circles and workshops for families online and in person. And she's also a mother of two beautiful children. Welcome, Abbey.

01:28

Thanks, Shelley. I just had a giggle. I apologise when it comes up today. I mean, strange vibe. But it's good to be here.

01:37

It's great to be here. And I welcome all of your however you are today. I think it's wonderful when we just show up and come as we are. And I think that's where the magic comes out. So I welcome all of the vibes.

01:53

Thanks. And it could go the other way too, because I have been emotionally up and down around the corner. So there's that little caveat as well. Yeah,

02:01

I agree. I've had a really big weight to win the start of school and, and my kids returning to school and candy. And I felt like I've cried more in this last week with things coming up than I haven't in a while. So I welcome that to

02:19

hear Yeah, I've been there too.

02:21

Yeah, I thought we might for the very first thing we do is just invite you because we'll talk about your journey in a minute and aware parenting and somatic work and the things that you do. But I thought just because this is both of our jams, to invite a little grounding and orienting practice, something that people can, you know, people listening can do right now with us, but also that they can do throughout their day or their week or when they're feeling stressed. What's something really quick that you would do in your daily practice or when you're feeling a little wobbly?

03:01

Yeah, definitely. I grow to like a grounding in orienting practice, just like you say, using what we call interoception. So noticing how our body's feeling internally, and using the environment around us to kind of anchor to and to notice and to consciously use our senses. So that we can get a feel for us, as our bodies and where we are in time and space. And it's something that we do, unconsciously, all the time. But when we layer in consciousness to it, it can, like you say it can help us in our daily practice, but it can also help us when we're heading into perhaps hypo activation or hyper activation in our nervous system, when we're noticing we're getting a bit antsy, or when we're actually really anxious or whatever it might be. We can use it in that way as well. So I'd happily take us through that, because that will help me too. Yeah, well, that's

03:57

I thought of both of us. I've just literally, you know, to record a podcast, often my kids out of the house, so my husband's taking them to the playground. But there was like lots of big feelings and they couldn't find their scooters, and then someone couldn't find their helmet. And then no one could find socks. And then the dogs barking and I'm like, Oh my gosh, I've got to be on the podcast in five minutes. So out the door, please. And so I was like, Oh, I think I need this too.

04:27

Yeah, yeah. And each time I do this, I did a group. I was on a friend's on my mother's group the other day and I did this practice and I was like at the end of it like I need to do this more often. So it's a great reminder for me to just start. You don't have to change anything we can stay seeing whatever. Whichever way your body feels comfortable. Just start walking and you're listening to this podcast, continue walking. You don't have to change anything. What we're going to do is we're just going to notice first where our body is contacting a surface. So from As I'm sitting on my back, so I noticed my bottom, my hip bones, perhaps I might move from side to side just to feel the bones and the flesh touching the surface of the chair. And just really try and sometimes the movement helps me actually feel it. And I also feel my feet, one of my feet is on the floor, the other one is tucked up underneath me. And that's okay. I noticed that too, I might sort of step my foot a little bit just to feel the surface of the floor. And just notice that. And even as I do this, I'm noticing that I'm slowing my speech down. And I'm purposefully slowing down and purposefully feeling my system actually come right down, it's probably helping to them talking. So what I like to do next is I like to keep my eyes open, and slowly look around the environment you're in. So we're using our visual cues, our visual acuity to slowly slowly look around the environment we're in, I'm in a room. So I tend to look up at the corners of the room. And what this does is, we can notice how our vision is if we focused or if it's unfocused, and neither are incorrect or correct. It's just noticing what our vision is like, are we actually looking at things or are we just kind of like, glazing over and just noticing if either is present. When we look up at sort of these angles, perhaps for like corners of the room, or maybe up at a tree, with our neck and facial muscles, we're activating our social engagement nervous system, as well be the cranial facial nerves. And part of the polyvagal theory surely is making some faces, which is fantastic. If you feel any stretches or any phases coming through, go ahead and follow those as you're, as you're noticing and moving around. So we're engaging our social engagement nervous system, when we're doing this purposefully, we're layering in these pathways that humans are wired to connect to self and getting to other. And we're, we're just creating these pathways of whoa, okay, if I look up and around at my environment, I'm actually looking around for safety and physical cues of safety. So I might even look behind me, I might even slowly turn my head and look behind me. And I might do the other way as well, like slowly turn my head and look behind me the other way. And it's just a great way for our bodies to to maybe come back into balance in a really simple, quick way. And I'm doing this is a long process because I'm talking through it. But it doesn't have to be this long at all. So as we're looking around, we might notice as well. At the same time we our bodies contacting the surface, we notice we want to stretch, move, yawn, sigh, scream, whatever comes to your jelly before was stretching out a mouth, that's a really nice one. As we as I'm talking to I notice in jaw tension, I tend to hold some tension in my jaw that can be really lovely to give that some love, like, maybe hold your hands there or stretch it out. Yeah. And the other thing you can do, some people also prefer as well to like bring their hand say to their shoulders or their arms and feel your body. This is just a way to ground and orient, orient to yourself. So actually squeeze your arms gently to squeeze like I'm here. I'm present in this body. No matter how I'm feeling. I'm here. And we can anchor to that. And we can layer in and build this practice. And sometimes, too, I like to like do that to my legs. Like I pat my legs or I rub the tops of my thighs down particularly when I'm sitting and like yes, I'm here. This is me. This is my body. And sometimes it's a surprise like oh yeah, here I am. Hello. Hello, legs. Hello, buddy. Okay, yeah, cool. I'm here. So as we do this, you might notice some spontaneous breaths coming in. You might notice, you might notice Oh, I've got a bit of an ache somewhere. I kind of want to move this way or you might notice you might notice you feel a bit antsy. You might notice this lady's taking a long bloody time to do this process. Like I have heaps of stuff to do. And I don't have time for this right now. And that's because I'm there too. So whatever is present, we invite you to does notice that and it can be done at a different time when you're a bit more imbalance or when you don't have a pressing urgent need. Okay? Yeah. Yeah.

10:05

Yeah, that was great. And like you said, obviously, that was longer than what you know, you can take as long you can take longer than that you can take as 30 seconds to do this. But I loved what how you describe that for people that are listening, because it's hard on a podcast to be like, I now just breathe and everyone's you know, go silent for a little while. So you need to really explain what's going on. But I noticed in my body, a slowing down of my heart rate. And, and a couple of big size of my breath. So I've been kind of sigh signs of which for me, you know, indicates that my nervous system is shifting back down into that social engagement part. I have so many things out of that, that you were just saying, oh, let's elaborate on that. And let's, so Oh,

11:00

it's huge, isn't it? Yeah,

11:02

I'll come to those questions in a minute, right. And so I feel, I feel now that I'm grounded, and back in my body, like I, I can feel my feet, I can feel I'm sitting on a chair, I feel fully present in my body. And I talk a lot about this. And with with body work, and with parents and parenting and the, you know, the crossover of this work, it's what I love. And I know it's what you love so much as well. But I think this is just a reminder that we need this all the time. I need this all the time I need and this is how, you know it can get rushed by getting kids out the door. And it can be it can feel intense in our bodies. But the practice for us as parents is to notice that not make that bad or wrong or anything like that. But noticing it and then having ways and tools like this to come back down into our bodies and to orient back down and feel really grounded and present. So thank you, because I'm here and I did I felt a lot of tension in my jaw actually. Hence why I was making faces that Abby like stretching out my jaw, opening up my eyes really wide. You know, moving my jaw, because when we shift tension in our jaw, again, helps to bring us back into that socially.

12:30

Yeah, definitely. With the jaw in particular, I think too. You know, there's other somatic practices, you know, like sounds and voo sounds and stuff like that. And the voo sound. I don't know if you're any listeners know that one?

12:45

Can you tell it? Well, I do because it we've talked about it. But can you tell us a little bit more about that? And when. And I also want to I want to elaborate a little bit more on the social engagement part of the nervous system? And what parts that we're talking about, what are we actually talking about for people that are listening? I have probably talked about it at in other podcasts, but it's the more we hear it from different angles, I think the better for for all of us. Yeah, so that's a question too. So if you want to talk about the, the VR or, or even just where we are in our nervous system and what that is,

13:22

yeah. So Peter Levine, Dr. Peter Levine from the founder of somatic experiencing, he likes the voo sound as a way to similar type of thing. It's a great way to practice as in a grounding, orienting body type tool. But it's also a beautiful tool to bring your body back into balance when you notice you're coming either a little bit flat or a little bit high. So by that I mean hyper activity like a maybe a bit of sympathetic nervous system arousal, maybe a bit of fight and flight or what we call anxiety, or maybe a bit of flatness, as in hypo arousal, like maybe a bit too sad, a bit lethargic, a bit, demotivated a bit. Shut down, because I don't exactly. So the voo sound engages our vocal cords, and it's a low pitch tone. Can't remember the difference between that those two, but it's a low sound, vocal sound. And it actually also engages the vagus nerve because the vagus nerve runs directly through our vocal cords, which is why talking can be a great way to come back into balance, which we know through our hand in hand parenting with chefs like talking in itself is fantastic. And the low frequency or low pitch of our voice directly can vibrate to our gut energy IT systems so the vagus nerve also runs straight down there, through the heart, through the lungs and or like branches that come off to the hand or to to the stomach.

14:58

Yep. And so if Your hand? Yes. Yeah,

15:03

yep. So toning this way, using this new sound can help really like move feelings of nausea or that flatness that I was speaking about before, or come the other way and help with the anxiety. Or you might have a mixture of both, because our nervous systems are layers on layers. And we don't always have one thing at a time, we have multiple routes, okay. So it's a low, I can

15:27

demonstrate it for you. Yeah, go. And I would encourage if people are in the car listening or walking, or if you're in your own home, you know, give this a go, when you feel comfortable and safe, too. Because using our voice in this way, is a really great way to work through our own our own stuff in our bodies, so that we can then hold space for our kids, or we can then respond to our children in this way. And this is what I always come back to like how can we ground people talking about grounding, we talk about holding space for kids, we talk about all these things, but like, how do we actually do that? How if we're like about to lose the loser at our kids and, and scream at them and we yell Lord or feeling frazzled? Like, what is it that we actually do? Because they say, Oh, just ground and hold space? What have ya, like, what is that? So I just wanted to put that into context. These are the things that we can do. You know, they're looking around the little orienting practice that Abby did at the start. But also, the voice is a brilliant one, too. So yes, if you're wanting to give up willing to give up go, then yeah,

16:39

yeah, I tend to do this when I'm feeling a bit flat. And I can feel that there's some feelings that I can't kind of resurface. And I've done this before, in the presence of somebody else supporting me, which is another sort of piece, because it, it's just helped bring me online a bit more and feel supported in it. So that can be another one to another piece. If you feel that it doesn't do anything, that's okay. But, you know, maybe you need support, or maybe you need a different tool. And that's alright. So you just simply take a deep breath, and then we're going to do a low long deep verb sounds, take a breath.

17:30

could go on. But as I did that, I just noticed I kept my eyes open, just as in preference, so that I could orient as I'm doing it and remain keep that visual safety happening. And I just noticed, sometimes my voice is correctly and crikey all over the place, or, oops, not purposefully, but because I've been chatting a little bit already, my voice is, is okay. Yep. And you can repeat that. So you can take another deep breath, you can repeat it, you can wait a few moments for integration, you can re orient in between. And you can just notice what happens in your body, particularly after doing it a few times. You might notice maybe some tingling, or maybe some tension places popping up or maybe some maybe you start to cry. I've done it before loads of times. And it's been it's connected me, you know, the vagus nerve has been toned and engaged. And it's connected me to feelings that were just there that I couldn't quite reach, or when nauseated before and it's really helped relieve a lot of the nausea even maybe all of it. I didn't know about it when I was pregnant, it would have been good. But yeah, it's it's a great one for that kind of ill feeling. Yeah. To bring you back online, and then you know, your body will follow what's next. Oh, okay. Now I feel like I need a rest or now I need a drink of water or I need to go to the toilet or what's next. I need to strange. Yeah. And it's a way to really come back to balance.

19:03

Yeah, I love that. And a couple of questions when you say and I know what you're talking about. But just for those listening. We've talked about a little bit about sympathetic activation. And the social engagement part, let's talk a little bit more about what these parts of our nervous system are. And because we talk about coming back online, what does that actually mean for somebody? And what does that feel like for you and your body and I can talk about what that feels like for me and my body just to give people really, really tangible things so that they can go, Oh, I know what that feels like. Okay, when I start to feel like that, these are some things that I can do. I think just seems to be a theme for the podcast at the moment because I've talked about school, the last couple of pod podcast episodes and the one that's coming in this week. You know, the one that's coming out next is I talked about As teachers, and how an educators and how we, you know how we can create a sense of safety in the classroom. And I gave some little examples, but, you know, these are the ways of noticing what's happening in our bodies, for teachers, for educators, for healthcare workers, anyone that works with anywhere, really, but if we're working with children, this is so important for us to be aware of, because they orient and come into balance with us in our nervous systems. And so if we're out, we are aware of it, then that's what they will be bathing in swimming, you know. And so that is the biggest tool that we've got is our bodies. Yeah, moment. So what do you mean by tell us a little bit more about the sympathetic parts of the nervous system get social engagement? And like, how does that kind of work? And

21:00

what does it feel like? Sure. So I tend to come at this from a polyvagal theory lens, and I know polyvagal theory expert, but it just helps me Dr. Steven Porges, the founder of the polyvagal theory, so we're born, little newborn creatures, we need to attach to our care providers to protect us. And babies are born with beautiful big eyes, and lots of other things that create an intoxicating bond for the parent to look after this helpless little thing. And attach. And so, you know, part of our social engagement nervous system is based on attachment. So we attach to our care providers. And there may be, you know, things to do with that we may have some miss wiring or some new situation along the way. And as adults with still attached to, not necessarily our care providers, and not necessarily attached in the same way, but we're still looking for cues from other humans to do with social engagement. And these cues, eye contact, we're looking for facial expression, micro expressions, particularly around the eyes, you'll know the term that orbital, the wrinkles around the eyes chain. Even around the mouth, we notice unconsciously to we notice someone's pupil size, even though we might not consciously know what it means we notice where their gaze is directed, we notice their body language, their respiratory rate, the way they're holding themselves, are they open to you are they closed, things we're noticing kind of semi consciously, or mostly, like unconsciously,

22:44

like the nonverbals that we are picking up all the time,

22:47

younger. So it's like body language and body cues is anywhere, like the respiratory stuff, you know, that's not necessarily body language. So if somebody has a sympathetic activation of sympathetic nervous system activation, their body perhaps isn't that fight and flight activation. So they might be breathing a bit faster, they might, their eyes might be darting around the room, they might not be able to really focus on you. And they, they might be jittery, or you might not even notice like huge big signs of this. But that's what I mean, when when I'm talking about sympathetic nervous system arousal is more the fight and flight pathway, which is activated when there is either a direct threat display or a perceived threat. So we now have beautiful human interactions, there may not actually be a true threat, there just might be a perception of threat based on history based on what's going on, based on patterns and somebody lots of different things. Yeah. Yeah. So a way to rebalance from coming into sympathetic nervous system arousal or fight and flight is to actually go well, I can use this brain and there's, you know, face of mind and my body to come back into social engagement, and then call it the ventral vagal state as well. So ventral being the front of the body, that's, you know, our front, like our face, our heart, our jaw, our mouth, our breathing, that's more of a ventral sort of vagal nervous system. So we can use our eyes, we can use our environment, we can use our interoception like I was saying before our tracking and noticing today Oh, I feel a bit off here. I might just try and stay in ventral like Yeah, yeah, language, but you might be like, Oh, I might try and like use my human ability to connect and attached to myself and attached to people. You're accused.

24:53

Yeah, a lover and I think you know, this was really a is a big part of what I do with credit cycles there. Repeat is a very big basis of, of when someone comes in to see me, you know, already I'm perceiving or picking up or noticing what I'm noticing in my body when they're when I'm in this person's presence, what changes within me, but also realising that when I am really grounded and calm and if I'm notice what's happening in my body and can actively shift my own nervous system and stay in that really grounded centred space, like we did at the start, then it's very fascinating how in a session, their body starts to do the same. And it's called co regulation, from a polyvagal theory, we don't tend to talk about, we don't use those terms in web parenting, but from a polyvagal theory, that you know, that CO regulation is really what we are doing all the time. It's what, as humans that you're saying, you know, right from birth, we are wired to connect and attach, and, you know, well, and seek it out as a newborn baby. So our nervous systems as a baby will match those that are around us. And so, hence why with parents and parenting, or if you're in the classroom, or wherever you are, that you as the adult nervous system in the room or the adult body are so important.

26:26

So important,

26:28

because your kids will kind of perceive what's going on in your bodies, and the activation and the level of stress or tension that you're holding. And they will act that will either feel a bit much for them. And it might be a perceived threat, even if you're loving and caring. And as a parent, we love and care for our kids. Of course we do. But often, it's our unconscious or subconscious, you know, our body, what's happening if we're not paying attention to it, that they're picking up on.

27:03

So I love that

27:04

with the feeling for you before like going offline or online. What does that feel like for you? Because I'd love to and I'll share a bit more as well. But yeah, the to help people to sense that in their own bodies.

27:22

So when I talked about, you know, back online for me, particularly, but it's kind of reflected to me and my kids as well, when they're back in balance. Like our colleague and mental my mental milestone usually actually talks about it. Okay, do you imbalance? Are there other ones? Yeah. And you know, in hand in hand parenting is how are they on track or off track? And in the way parenting, we say? Do they have some, you know, some type of repressed feelings like, say, for adults? So with children, you know, other cooperating? Are they able to listen to their body cues? Are they able to actually hear you see you? Are they balanced in their body. And for me, when I noticed I'm back online, I actually can see clearer visually, like doing the grounding and orienting practice, I noticed that the start when I'm looking around, and like, I'm just actually not kind of looking at anything. I'm kind of just looking in the direction and my eyes are kind of glazed over. Yeah, but as I go on, I like oh, now I can see that spot. And oh, it's in the shape of a rabbit or something like Yeah. So I noticed that I see clearer, I noticed that I feel more settled. So in that sense, I can feel the surface I'm on I can feel my body and time and space. A bit more proprioception, I guess. Yeah. I noticed that eye contact. You know, I'm probably more willing to make eye contact. If someone's directly in front of me, maybe the gaze for a bit longer not like stare and stare at someone like don't move your eyes away? Because that's not I know what you mean. Like it's that attunement. I'm able to attune to somebody better. Yeah, yeah, I'm able to be more playful. Oh, my gosh, please, try and play with me. If I'm in a bad mood, I'll be like,

29:14

yeah. Funny. Yes, absolutely. And that's a big part of when parents often say to me, but I'm not playful, I can't play I'm not faithful. It often gives me an indication of where they're spinning where they are in their nervous system. And it's very hard to play. If we're not in that, you know, the social engagement part is social engagement. It's like we can feel joy, we feel, you know, we feel like we're back. We can we've got access to, to our desires and our wishes and wants and feeling and human. Yeah, humour and all of those things. And so, being aware of this, and having practices that we can then actively shift means that then we can be more playful with our kids.

30:00

Yes, absolutely. And similarly to to like what we're talking about with CO regulation before and with perhaps even like mirror neurons in the brain and things, if we are spending time with people who are balanced and playful themselves in our bodies in our brains will start to co regulate to that and start to model some of that for us. So we can learn how to be playful, we just got to find our jam, like you might not like, you know, you might not have the same sense of humour as me or as you, but you might find something else hilarious and fun. Everyone has their own sort of unique spin on that as well.

30:36

Yeah. And I will my experience for when I'm really activated in my nervous system. So if I'm in a bit of a fight or flight response, I can feel this tension kind of rise in my chest, and it feels like my heart starts to race. And I start to kind of often describe it as like spinning in my head, you know. And all of a sudden, I think of everything that needs to be done and the to the to do list and I start to speed up in my voice like this. And it's like, and you can actually feel it as I'm talking, I can feel myself. And those listening, even just me talking that fast. Notice what it feels like in your body, when someone speeds up that much. And then I'm like, Okay, hang on, whoa, I can start to actually breathe and go, Shelly, just take a moment, slow my breath down. But my vision when I'm in sympathetic, like, or a fight or flight response gets really tunnelled. So it's a tunnel vision, because you know, which is we're physiologically wired to, then really focus because we're either going to fight something, or we're going to run. And so, you know, in the shop, sometimes if I'm supermarket shopping, and my husband's like, You nearly ran into that lady, and you nearly ran into that trolley, and, you know, because my my vision really sort of narrows because I'm in a, we got to get this done, we got to shop with the dirt, and I'm stressed. So being aware of our bodies has been my greatest learning as a mother and in parenting, because we're thrown into chaos with the kids with their feelings with their, you know, and really me learning. This has probably been one of the biggest things for me. And that's when I get that tunnel vision when I get those racing thoughts, having things to go

32:30

and do. Yeah, back down. Yeah, definitely, it came to me to like, when I'm in balance, and when I'm online and playing with my kids, and perhaps they're not, you almost need that expanded awareness to like see behind you. Because you know, you need ninja skills when you're playing with or wrestling with a child who's off track who wants to choose in that mode, Fenty, like, I can block that, right? Oh, he's coming here, oh, he's trying to bite me and do the vigorous. Whatever we need to do. Like you need that, that expanded awareness. And that, you know, you can really only do that from a grounded place when you're online. Because otherwise, it just takes so much energy for our body to try and have that expanded awareness in a place of hyper or hypo arousal. And it's just so draining. Absolutely, it can be or it can be playful, you know. So on one hand, it could be really draining to try and do all these things. Or you could be in it, and you're like, oh, here I am, I'm imbalanced. And I can do this I can, I can play that. And then I can, you know, chopping down like a tree playfully, and change this energy. And we can focus this energy and like jump on a tramp or pound into the beanbags, or whatever we can do, and redirect and use

33:50

those skills. And you there's a really good segue into because I was going to talk about an ask about your web parenting journey and just a little bit more about like, how you came to it and because that sort of segues into from our nervous system stuff, because really, that's that that's our that's like, our role as parents is being aware of our bodies being aware of what it feels like when we are activated and then ways to come back online and into balance and feel. Hi, Okay, I'm ready now because we can't play or connect or listen and hold space for our feelings really, if we are activated ourselves. And so I'd love to know more about your, your journey, whether were parenting and the things you love and the things that you find hard and all the all of all of it.

34:43

Yeah, cool. It's funny you say that because when you were talking about spinning in like your sensitive spinning before, I actually like had memories come back because when I had my second daughter, I had birth trauma from I had to sit there forever. was and once the porn and you know, thankfully like we attached really well in lots of ways and we had a beautiful breastfeeding journey and stuff that she was really upset baby. And I hadn't heard of hand in hand parenting or were parenting before that. And I describe and remembering my body so this is just a bit of a warning. I feel like I had PTSD. I self diagnosed myself. So did I. Yeah, I was swirling inside, literally spinning inside swelling wheeling, it was like a hurricane or tornado or just gross kind of nauseatingly awful feelings inside my body. And that was even at the hospital. That was even then, and I could not express how bad I was feeling. And I was very delighted that my daughter was there. But I was very, very gutted that I'd had that experience. And then I actually experienced something else in hospital that night. There was a confused man outside my door and I was trapped in a room and yeah, you know, stress on top of stress. And for me it was traumatic. Yeah. Yeah. And, yeah, that's welling feeling. And then a couple of weeks on, you know, she was still really upset. I felt really disconnected from my two year old son. I was devastated about that as well. My darling Angel. Absolutely, like, despised everyone I was close to because anxious avoidant attachment wound and like, come in and get the fuck away from me. And I had angry outbursts as well. And then I found Hand in Hand parenting through an article. And I was like, right, I'm going to do this. And straightaway, it was like, I realised like seeds along the way of where I had seen, were listening to crying and allowing expression was helpful because I was a nurse. Yeah, and I've seen a lot of that, and I, you know, probably held space for a lot of that too, you know, when I could in nursing. And I did it straightaway. And then I found a way of parenting after that and became an instructor eventually as well.

37:26

The same love we've seen quick sequence life, I found a hands on parenting first and then aware parenting and yeah, I love it.

37:36

Yeah, no, I actually had a dream about being at a conference with Patti Webflow last night.

37:43

Amazing. So super

37:45

excited. So I found that and my world just changed and I, my life opened up, I felt like energy came back to my body in ways that I didn't expect I had my asthma healed. After a few months have been really supportive with crying plus, I had started Somatic Experiencing therapy at that stage. I think that helped as well in the safety in my body and the expression and allowing myself to cry and be held with that. And then of course, it flowed on to my children and my Darling children, you know, like we did the special time or present time and then we did the listening and the the playfulness to came back to me like I remember roaring with laughter like roaring crying with laughter and just feeling the joy and the bliss back through my body. And like mining things fucking hilarious. When the week before, you know, I'd be barely able to crack. Yeah, yeah.

38:49

Amazing. Oh,

38:50

yeah, really amazing. And also, I remembered, like, the connection I had with my son, even though we didn't do aware parenting back then, you know, I did concerts for him in the kitchen with the guitar and like singing like a maniac. And we'd laugh and laugh and laugh and like lots of attachment play we would do already. And even we had this little book that you get given by the council. And it was like, hush, baby Hush, and there was a picture of the, the picture of the baby crying or something. And I'd often we'd often have the book and I'd often pretend to cry in his book, and he will laugh and laugh and laugh and laugh. And so I remember the stuff that I did before. I know what I know. Now, you wouldn't know. And so that's nice to reflect on as well, because there was another part of me that felt bad or, you know, some guilt around not knowing what I know, but I'm okay with feeling both, you know, remembering and feeling those parts.

39:44

Yeah, I think that's a beautiful point to touch on. Because, you know, people that are listening to this podcast, many have kids already that are four or five or seven or 10 or however old. And I know I felt the So with my son to who was like, three ish, when we first came across hand in hand, my daughter was one. And so, you know, there have been times where I'm like I've cried or I've grieved over, you know, things I didn't know beforehand. But what we want to make sure we do is not pick up those guilt sticks as the beautiful Marian Rose was say, where we're like just beating ourselves over the head, again, telling ourselves, oh, you should have known better. And we would have been better if you did this, this and this. And, like, those thoughts just aren't helpful. And we can actually pop them down and be like, have compassion and love for ourselves. If we didn't, we didn't know any different. You know, of course, we loved our kids. And there was probably many times where we connected and I did lots of play, and all those things. I just didn't know what I was actually doing. And probably didn't bring the same presents that I do now. But that anytime we start listening at whatever age is going to be helpful for our children. Yes, definitely, we start these tools and bring this awareness when our kids 10. That's incredible. That will make a huge difference to your child, or whether we start when they're a baby and a newborn, that will make a huge difference to your child.

41:18

And to be honest, to where I'm at at the moment, I feel still a lot of D, the grief and separation. So I currently co parent, my kids 5050. I separated nearly three years ago from their dad. And I do kind of grief of that. Not being there not being in control. Not sense not feeling that direct connection, although I can in other ways. But that grief of oh my god, what I'm not doing what I haven't had the opportunity to do what I didn't know and feeling that and having places for that either in a ritual or you know, listening partnership or with support or journaling, which I just find the verbal, the verbal waste so much better to connect with my body. annoying, but sometimes I just prefer the talking. Yeah. And yeah, so that's present for me at the moment still now like, the grief jeez, like, you know, and I think that in some ways to parenting each, even if you have kids all the time, the grief of having the grief of women Oh, and when they come to a new development, you know, like lots of people like, oh, let's put bricks on their heads. So they stay young forever. Oh, we could feel the feelings about it. And like we're okay with.

42:46

Yeah, I know. I think that's what I was. Yeah, it is. It's about letting go. And it's like, there's a huge amount of grief, in parenting, whatever the situation that we're in, whether we you know, I'm sending you lots of love around the grief with separating and, you know, not having that control, or not having them all the time with you. And, and yeah, I'm just holding those feelings. And yeah, it can be

43:15

a lot. Yeah. Thank you. It's been a huge, huge couple of weeks. And huge week here, like my youngest daughter started schools. Oh, my God.

43:28

So your thing just quiet. That's interesting. Yeah. Can you hear me? Yeah, I can hear you now. It just got really quiet when you were talking about your daughter starting school? Huh? It's been pretty big. It has been pretty big. I always noticed and Marian rose, like we'll talk a lot about conversations with life and in sessions and things when people freeze, or when they go really slow or they get stuck. And um, and that always pay attention to what they were talking about. Because it's it's just as an indication or like it gives you cues as to what might be going on. But yeah, my son, the youngest started candy this week, too. And I, you know, he dropped him off, dropped everyone off new school, my daughter said, you know, new year for my son, three different drop offs. Wednesday morning, and then I came home and I had a huge cry for about 45 minutes. Just really feeling the pain and the grief of oh my gosh, all of them are going in to their next things. And I think the grief for me as well as that many people listening know that I had another miscarriage last year. And I think there's a huge amount of grief still there around that with sending my youngest kindy then I think that we are done like I don't think that there are any more children For us and our family, so yeah, it's been a big week. Big we

45:08

absolutely. What I'm holding you to with tenderness, warmth. Actually, my kids were at the playground last night after I'd lost my, I lost my shirt a few times yesterday, I will admit.

45:24

And I love that, like, I want to say that to people listening. If it's been a big week for you, then like, know that whip. I mean, I teach this, we share this, we, we live it, we embody it. And I lost my call at my daughter this week. Like I really lost it and I, like reacted to her. I scared her. I then repaired and went and apologised, and, you know, let and we played and we can actually talk a little bit about what you do after that might be helpful for people. But I just want people to know that we are very, very human. Yes. And that is, you know, there's no perfect. So if you've lost a kid this week, we hold you to in love and compassion. Yes.

46:12

Absolutely. Oh, yeah, well, so I'd lost it. And I was, I was like, I need to, in my head. I was like, I need to sleep, I need to have a nap. And then what I what I did do, I didn't do that. I ended up turning off all the screens. And we went outside and we went for a bike ride to our playground, just around the corner, but riding up and down the street. And then one of them said, Let's go to the playground. So we went. And then we had this beautiful conversation at the playground about all this stuff that's in the field like babies and they asked me about because I had my first pregnancy was a miscarriage as well. So we spoke about that baby, we spoke about oh, how old would they be? And one of the things that the boy one of them thinks it's a girl and then now asking me for more babies in my house. And if we could adopt adopt one and say No, not right now. And then we had a conversation about six as well, because oh, why don't you have one by six? Things came up. And yeah, that was really nice to talk about that. And I felt like some tears did well up talking about that baby, and you know how old they would be now and they would be in this grade and stuff like that at school. And that's okay. And the kids like kept looking back at me. You know, he's still crying. I'm like, I'm okay. It's all right. We can talk about this and then they move on anyway, as well. So yeah, in regards to losing my shit, I did lose it. And then I kept going. You don't get it together. And then I still wasn't done with the anger. And I still I kept leaving it like going, it's fine. But you know, like

47:54

I know that feeling to me, like, Okay, I'm gonna go and repair. But I'm still angry. Okay, hang on. Not ready. Let me just come. This is not helpful.

48:02

Exactly. No, it wasn't. So eventually, a few minutes later, I was coming up today. Oh, hey, to both of them. I'm really sorry out yelled at you about that. Because someone's built smoothie in the car. Then they didn't tell me. And I was like, I was really mad at the time. And I'm sorry that I yelled at you. And now I'm not in it's it's cleaned up. And do you think next time you could tell me? No. Yes. I'll tell you. Because when I was yelling at them, they were crying too. And yeah, that was what's going on. And so that was that was enough. Like I didn't need to go on and on and on about how bad I am or about the situation. It was like, Yeah, I got really mad. I was yelling and that probably scared you did it checking in? Yes, it did. Yeah. I'm sorry about that. Oh, you know, sometimes I say I try not to do that again. Sometimes I don't sometimes. Yeah. Okay, let's. Yeah.

49:01

I think a great point because sometimes, like apologising, sincerely, being authentic, being real, and then moving on together is really important. Because if we apologise over and over again, and like keep saying, oh my god, I was such a bad mom. I was so there's that we're almost wanting the child to make us okay. And him to be like, It's okay mom, and you know, but really sitting with our own feelings around things and working through what did come up for us, we can take that elsewhere and or listen partnership or whatever it might be. But just being like, I'm so sorry. You know, I was really worried about this, this and this, and that's mine. You know, I own that no adult should, you know, talk to you in that way. You know, do you want to go and play let's go and connect again. And then we move on. It's taken me a while though. I used to feel really bad. I used to beat myself up and say oh my gosh, I'm such a terrible mother. And but I've learned over the years to quieten down that harsh inner voice and put those sticks down and just know that I'm human and to just yet keep moving forward, I suppose.

50:16

Yeah, and see the signs to like, see the signs of where the balance has come back in for yourself or for them, you know, we may not even get like a, an apology from them, or, you know, if you have siblings, and they're fighting with each other, and they may not say sorry, but they may, you know, you'll see the signs of, oh, they're being cooperative, they're sharing without force, generous, or them lovingly teaching or, you know, that sort of thing. Or they're laughing together. Yeah, they've

50:44

made some way of repairing their own. Yeah, in their own.

50:49

Yeah. And similarly, like, last night, you know, an hour before that, I was like, Let's go for a bark, right? Because it was me. I was like, I need to, you know, it was bubbling under the surface for me. And then like, No way, we're not going to. Okay, so then all that stuff went on. And then after all that happened, we all had a bit of a expression. I had a cry, I had a roar as i Okay, let's go for a bike ride. So we did get an A button that, you know, beautiful, lovely time happened and the kids playground they didn't even fight? Yeah.

51:20

Yeah. And I find that often happens once the explosion happens. Like, once it all comes out, then everyone is back in balance. Everyone then has this beautiful connected time afterwards. I think that the thing or not what I want to ask next is, how do we, you said you had a big roar. And that anger has been something that it's you know, worked through? What do you do as a practice or as a way of being aware of that and shifting that? So it doesn't land on our kids? Yeah.

51:52

Yeah, what I could have done, I could have, you know, left them they were happily playing on their screens, I could have left them and be like, Okay, guys, I'm feeling really, I'm feeling lots of feelings right now. You guys stay here, I'm gonna go where you can't hear or see me or wait for them to I'm gonna go to my bedroom. And I'm going to work my feelings out. And so I could have done like, wringing a towel and growling, like slowly. This is Irene Lyon. She's a nervous system regulation. Snake be experiencing practitioner as well. You know, like, again, keeping your eyes open, slowing things down, really slowing down movements and feeling the energy pass through something like ringing a towel really slowly with your hands, you might, you might find that you making faces or growling or making noises or saying phrases like, I feel like crap or whatever. Yes. You know, even you might find like a memory popping up, you might find Oh, this is reminding me of the time when blah, blah, blah. Anyone try and feeling these feelings. And you can either reflect on them, or you can express them or to yourself or do some re parenting of yourself or reach out to a support person in the moment or leave a message on WhatsApp to someone sometimes do all of those. So that probably would have you know, might have even at the point yesterday, like done a bit of punching into the pillow. That's how five Yeah,

53:25

yeah, I find that sometimes every now and then I just Yeah, I often need to get up like a pillow and kind of really like slam it on the bed. Like the actual action of the slamming for my body. I get that like, bit like punching a punching bag like those that were actually really feel that feedback helps helps shift things for me, you know, but it's finding the thing that works for each of us. Right? You know, squeezing a towel is really good. I find like using my voice not just saying that low Vu sound but like a real raw actual raw. And those things are really helpful to shift that Ruby kind of rage that that Yeah. Come through us.

54:13

Yeah, sometimes even pushing on a wall. Yeah, putting on a wall Yeah, if your shoulder or your arm like and like pushing yourself against it like safely, but pushing again, feel yourself but also let some of that energy come through and complete.

54:28

Yeah. And another one that we do that I do and it's helpful when you have partner at home. But if Matt if if I'm able to and I'm a bit antsy and he's been antsy, like we're actually like wrestle, like our main Yeah, fully close, like there's no room or on the carpet somewhere or whatever. But actually having someone to push against I can see why this is so helpful for our children because it's actually been helpful for me to wear either standing and I'm pushing against his hands. or even if I'm lying on the floor and like pushing, pushing his hands down, like, like you see in jujitsu and all of the the martial arts, there's a reason why that, you know, it feels strong and empowering and shifts those energy, that energy. So definitely and

55:21

yeah, like if you have an adult partner to do that with, and I sometimes do they do it with the kids like for my benefit and there's two. Yeah, yeah, it's amazing. It's so good. Yeah.

55:34

Yeah, I haven't wrestled for a while, but like finding that. And then sometimes I find when I was doing it, that all of a sudden, things come out of my mouth. And I'm like, oh, that's what the thing is like, you kind of get to the thing. And my poor husband, sometimes he's copying it from like, all males. Like the patriarchy. I'm so mad at the patriarchy. I'm like, How dare you treat people like this? And he's like, what? Oh, no, that is not at you. It's just, it's just what?

56:07

Oh, I love that. I love that you have that kind of achievement and relationship together.

56:13

Time and it's not all the time. Sometimes my frustration still comes out in an argument over the phone charges or the beatings don't get me wrong. But that there's always often underneath there's this, you know, energy or feelings or something that's a lot deeper, and often not, not him. It's. But if I can catch myself early enough to ask him to say, hey, let's do this. And he goes, Okay, I know what I'm doing here. She's not actually angry at me. It's really helpful. So many couples out there that, you know, want to try a bit of wrestling. It's really, really, you know, wonderful.

56:50

Yeah, definitely. That's something that is on my wish list for this year or sometime, is to have a workshop for adults. Basically doing all attachment play. Yeah. And even I'm Bessel Vander Kolk. I think it was he described improv acting is a way one of the several ways do you know this before, haven't we? Yeah, we have

57:11

we talked about your podcast. Yeah. Improv acting is a Yeah, helping shift and play out different parts of of ourselves. And yeah,

57:26

yeah, so that combined with like roughhousing, adults and all of the choice and stuff, but like, really getting into the playfulness, and what, what, what we do with children, but basically doing it for ourselves as adults, and having time to integrate and having time to, you know, all that reminded me this, and I felt really, like, I chose not to do that, because of this event, or whatever would pop up for us.

57:48

I have done that with an Heffron, who's here in Adelaide has a hand in hand instructor and teachers hand in hand. And so she was who I went through hand in hand, instructor training with, and she often runs a retreat every year. And as part of the retreat, we do some play and play as, like with adults, when we are working through play, and some wrestling, and maybe even some special time where one adult will choose what they want to do. And the other adult will do that with them. And it can be you know, things like having someone read a book to you, or draw or sing or dance or do somersaults, or whatever you feel like doing in the moment, the other adult will bring their attention to you and join you. And for me, those experiences were like, wow, this is what it feels like for our kids, when someone's like, just there for us and joining us in what we want to do and delighting in us, it really made me gave me a embodied feel of what special time feels like for our kids. And we did some wrestling and I would highly recommend if you do a workshop on that, I think it would be great. Yeah, you get to play and you get to laugh and you get probably cry, because that will it will bring up feelings. But it means that it's a beautiful workshop, you know that we're holding space for all of those things.

59:18

Yeah, definitely. Yeah, a lot of those. A lot of those playful things I do with my twin sister and I we have like that real playful sense of humour. And we're always like in stitches or we're crying or we're, you know, wrestling or blocking children's wrestling and stuff. So I feel really fortunate to have that in my life as well. Very my life.

59:39

Yeah, amazing. Amazing. Yeah. Thank you so much. Yeah, thank you. Anything else that you any other last sort of thoughts or things that have dropped in that you want to share with parents? Or even just telling us about what you're doing? Where can people find you? Actually, that's a great thing too.

1:00:00

have finish on. Yeah. Yeah, look, send us a message or ask any more questions if you want, you know, because we, some of the language we've used today is a bit jagged ish. And like, if it doesn't relate to you, that's fine. But I encourage everyone to find, you know, what lights them up. And yeah, reflect on what, what brings you back to balance? What brings you back online? How do you know, when you're back online? Just the simple things of like, are you looking at something and actually focusing or not? And if you do a practice afterwards, do you notice that you see clearly or that you hear clearly, and I'm on Instagram @Abbyheartlove, and Facebook as Abbey Stanbrook and my podcast is somatic seasons, and I do one on one coaching online. And I do circles and I speak at events and like guest presenters and stuff as well. And yeah, I'm always, always happy to chat. I also provide safe and sound protocol support as well, which is

1:01:04

doing it quickly, like do a quick little like, yeah. Yeah, elevator pitch. We don't have to rush we've got time, but I'm just

1:01:15

going. Yeah, so a lot of my polyvagal theory, knowledge comes from the stuff I've been learning over the last few years, and I've just studied how to support and guide people through the safe and sound protocol, which is a listening therapy. It's non invasive, it can be for children and adults. And what it does is it re tunes the ear muscles, the inner ear muscles, so that the eardrum can pick up safe sounds and so that the body feels safer all the time. Yeah. So by safe sounds, I mean, you might notice when you're feeling a bit off track yourself or out of balance that you can't hear speech very well, you can't hear your partner saying you like why. So often when we're either anxious or offline, our ear muscles aren't quite picking up the pitch in the human voice. So 70 is listening to music that's designed to basically change your ear and in ear state, so that then you hear safer sounds. And then basically, you feel safer in your body. And it has a whole huge range of effects that it can help with things like gut challenges, anxiety, depression, relating to people, basically, it will help bring you into the social engagement system states. Yeah,

1:02:35

because if we are always on alert for, like noises and sounds around us, that will keep us in our sympathetic fight or flight response, which means that we then it, it plays a big part in the rest of our nervous system. So that can then flow on to our immune system and our gut health and hence why it can change so many things because we're effectively changing our, our ability to be able to move between these different parts of their bodies, which, and I started the protocol and got busy and didn't quite finish it. But I noticed that even in the half of the time that I did it, like the hours that I did, I noticed that when I was listening, because it's retraining your inner ear muscles, effectively, I I was like, I can't hear it, you know, like and then because it gets really quiet. And then I could notice a flash of panic in my body for a little while. And it was really interesting to notice what was happening in my body while I was listening. And then the changes afterwards feeling calmer, a lot more relaxed. Yeah, it was really great. So I highly recommend that actually. And I will come back to doing it with my kids. What Yeah,

1:03:48

absolutely. Oh my gosh, January has been huge. I am shocked at how how crazy it's been. So I'm right there with you. But yeah, I am I do take people's like I guide them through support you can do it from home. And that's what I have people with so it just takes a little bit of organisation and readiness really I think and experimentation I do that as well. And yeah, that's what I do.

1:04:14

And whereabouts other input like where are you located just being because in person you do stuff locally, don't you?

1:04:21

Yes, I do. I do coaching in person I'm located in Shepparton and in person circles as well. I might in the future do some online circles. And I mean at the moment I've I've got my fingers in so many pies. I'm experimenting with song and singing I'm experimenting with sexuality and somatic sexuality stuff for adults and children. What else am I doing there my two kind of main flavours at the moment, just for me personally and then it flows on into my work. And I just the other stuff like I love the nervous system stuff. I love the somatic stuff. I love the parenting stuff. Have, just keep going. Yeah, doing that.

1:05:03

Amazing. Well, thank you so much for chatting, I feel like we could just keep talking, talking and talking. So we'll have to have it back on again at some point. And I'll put the links to your Instagram and social media and things in the show notes for people to come and find you. But thank you so much for this chat. And I'm hoping that it's really helpful for parents to be aware and to start to notice more and more what's happening in their bodies. Because that is a big part of being able to parent in the ways that, you know, we want to show up for our kids. So thank you so much and have

1:05:44

Thanks, Shelley, delighted to be here to see you.

Shelley Clarke  1:05:49

Thank you so much for listening. I would love to know your thoughts and feelings and to continue the conversation. You can connect with me on Instagram and Facebook @_ShelleyClarke_. If you'd like to keep in the loop for all my resources and offerings as they happen, you can join my mailing list at www.shelleyclarke.com Thank you for all you are doing. Your parenting is important and powerful. Have a lovely day. Bye for now.